Hi...new member. A tip for all that have stalling issues, poor/inconsistent tickover
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Thread: Hi...new member. A tip for all that have stalling issues, poor/inconsistent tickover

  1. #1
    Junior Member
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    Trevor Mortimer
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    Thumbs up Hi...new member. A tip for all that have stalling issues, poor/inconsistent tickover

    Hi!!

    I own a 2009 Morini Granpasso 1200. I have had this from new (2009) and lived with its 'issues' for 8 years now. I'd like to try and help a few on here with the issues of stalling and tickover irregularities as I've had these for some years up until recently.

    The Idle Control Valve (ICV) will generally be the culprit of the low speed running woes. My bike used to random stall at normal operating temperature (mighty inconvenient with wife and full panniers!!), have a 2500 tickover in cooler weather (UK spring and Autumn ealy mornings) and generally be a pigs *rse to manage at idle and just above (pulling off and pulling up with clutch dipped).

    After much frustration I blanked the air inlet ports of the ICV. I left the electrical plug connected to stop dash lights coming on at BITE check and raised the tickover to what I wanted by adjusting the throttle stop screws on the actuator mechanism. All really easy. The only caveat to doing this is that you need to just take the slack out of the throttle cabe when cold starting and hold the throttle in this position for 30-odd seconds to give the motor time to get a little heat in it. After that it will tickover at the setting you dialled in and start on the button every time. It will not stall and just runs as it should. Infact it has been a revelation!!

    Some may not like the idea of this but when you consider what the ICV does and how much cash it would cost to replace it....and it may not be the one and only time you have to do this, then this is the fix.

    I hope this helps some as I can fully relate to the frustration of struggling with these issues. As I didn't use the bike in most of the cooler weather I lived with the traits of poor ICV performance until recently. The machine had a remap some 4 years ago and which changed it completely and into probably what it would have become through the dealer network had the factory continiued in business. But it didn't cure the stalling and poor low running issues.

    Cheers
    Markfto likes this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Engenia's Avatar
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    Errol Kowald
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    I have pretty much done exactly as you describe, without blanking off the IACV air vents. I had done this to see if I could get the balance correct just above idle. Waste of time.
    It wouldn't let me set the idle mixture correctly and it idled like crap, spitting back through the throttles and stalling the bike. It was only when I brought the stops back to zero (butterflies all closed) and gave the ECU control over the idle with the correct number of stepper steps, that it ran properly again.

    The real problem with the seemingly random stalling of a Benelli, and a few other marques, is that the stepper can not always respond fast enough to the revs dropping to idle. A solenoid IACV would be a much better choice - if there was room enough for one, which there isn't.
    If it is tuned sweetly though, the stalling frequency is minimal. For mine, maybe once a month when used daily.
    Last edited by Engenia; 04-25-2017 at 07:19 AM.
    Laurencewhite likes this.
    hooroo, Errol www.engenia.com.au [120,261 km - and counting .....]

  3. #3
    Junior Member
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    Trevor Mortimer
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    Hi
    The ICV air inlets must be blanked. This removes any interference from the ICV and gives it fully to the throttle butterflies. This will work if you follow what I suggested. My only concern in doing mine was cold starting but which remained as it was previously, excellent. My ICV gave a small movement at ignition on and a fully plunger cycle at ignition off. It therefore has a deficiency in its operation/sensing capabilities at transient temperature conditions. The fix suggested is straight forward. Give it a try, you've nothing to lose.

    Rgds
    Trevor

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    Member Markfto's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by mort1187 View Post
    Hi!!

    I own a 2009 Morini Granpasso 1200. I have had this from new (2009) and lived with its 'issues' for 8 years now. I'd like to try and help a few on here with the issues of stalling and tickover irregularities as I've had these for some years up until recently.

    The Idle Control Valve (ICV) will generally be the culprit of the low speed running woes. My bike used to random stall at normal operating temperature (mighty inconvenient with wife and full panniers!!), have a 2500 tickover in cooler weather (UK spring and Autumn ealy mornings) and generally be a pigs *rse to manage at idle and just above (pulling off and pulling up with clutch dipped).

    After much frustration I blanked the air inlet ports of the ICV. I left the electrical plug connected to stop dash lights coming on at BITE check and raised the tickover to what I wanted by adjusting the throttle stop screws on the actuator mechanism. All really easy. The only caveat to doing this is that you need to just take the slack out of the throttle cabe when cold starting and hold the throttle in this position for 30-odd seconds to give the motor time to get a little heat in it. After that it will tickover at the setting you dialled in and start on the button every time. It will not stall and just runs as it should. Infact it has been a revelation!!

    Some may not like the idea of this but when you consider what the ICV does and how much cash it would cost to replace it....and it may not be the one and only time you have to do this, then this is the fix.

    I hope this helps some as I can fully relate to the frustration of struggling with these issues. As I didn't use the bike in most of the cooler weather I lived with the traits of poor ICV performance until recently. The machine had a remap some 4 years ago and which changed it completely and into probably what it would have become through the dealer network had the factory continiued in business. But it didn't cure the stalling and poor low running issues.

    Cheers
    love the granpasso and Moro morinis , I went to see a morini scrambler before I bought the tnt, great bike just a bit big for my short legs. Thanks for sharing the tip with fellow Italian enthusiasts.
    Pre benelli; triumph speed four, Kawasaki en 500 Vulcan, Suzuki corona gsxr 750 99 srad, Honda rvt 400 nc35.

  6. #5
    Member
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    Rob
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engenia View Post
    I have pretty much done exactly as you describe, without blanking off the IACV air vents. I had done this to see if I could get the balance correct just above idle. Waste of time.
    It wouldn't let me set the idle mixture correctly and it idled like crap, spitting back through the throttles and stalling the bike. It was only when I brought the stops back to zero (butterflies all closed) and gave the ECU control over the idle with the correct number of stepper steps, that it ran properly again.

    The real problem with the seemingly random stalling of a Benelli, and a few other marques, is that the stepper can not always respond fast enough to the revs dropping to idle. A solenoid IACV would be a much better choice - if there was room enough for one, which there isn't.
    If it is tuned sweetly though, the stalling frequency is minimal. For mine, maybe once a month when used daily.
    Hi Engenia, I'm having trouble with a rough idle and my stepper seems to have packed up. If I could, I'd like to just bypass the damn thing. Is this what you have done on your tornado? If so can you explain the procedure in a few steps? Many thanks for your help. I have a morgan carbtune as well so I wanted to balance my throttles after and hopefully have my bike ready for it's MOT this weekend!

  7. #6
    Senior Member Engenia's Avatar
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    Errol Kowald
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    Quote Originally Posted by X121EES View Post
    .. having trouble with a rough idle and my stepper seems to have packed up.
    You need to get it running again. It could be just stuck, like mine was a while ago. A good clean in carby cleaner will sort it out.
    If I could, I'd like to just bypass the damn thing. Is this what you have done on your tornado?
    No.
    In my experience, the Benelli needs the stepper to idle properly. If the stepper is effectively bypassed, by having the butterflies open too much (the ECU will close the IACV in an attempt to get control of the idle speed), the ECU will not be able to adjust the idle mixture. Adjust the idle mixture numbers as much as you like with your Axione or TuneECU, the mixture won't change. Maybe the Walbro ECU is set up differently, but this was my experience with my Tornado.
    I have a morgan carbtune as well so I wanted to balance my throttles after and hopefully have my bike ready for it's MOT this weekend!
    Definitely sync the throttles. Then reset the TPS.

    Good luck with the MOT
    hooroo, Errol www.engenia.com.au [120,261 km - and counting .....]

  8. #7
    Junior Member
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    Trevor Mortimer
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    Cheers...happy to try and help....Ive come to learn that we that are 'different' need to pool resources and help each other as these italian things can certainly test you at times. At some point there will be a Benelli in my garage as they are refreshingly different.

  9. #8
    Senior Member
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    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by mort1187 View Post
    Hi
    The ICV air inlets must be blanked. This removes any interference from the ICV and gives it fully to the throttle butterflies. This will work if you follow what I suggested.
    What type of airflow measurement does the fuel injection system on Granpasso use, MAF, MAP or Alpha-N? If it uses one of the first two methods then I could see how blanking off the IACV and opening the throttle stops could work for you.

    The Benelli Tornado/TNT uses a pure Alpha-N system i.e. it can only estimate airflow based on the position of the throttle, the position of the IACV and the engine RPM (it also applies an atmospheric pressure correction). When the ECU opens or closes the IACV to maintain idle speed it will add or remove fuel according to the new estimated airflow. Since the ECU has no way of knowing if the IACV is blanked off and no longer contributing to airflow, we would end up with widely varying air/fuel mixture and even worse stalling problems.

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