1972 650 Tornado locked up?
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Thread: 1972 650 Tornado locked up?

  1. #1
    Junior Member luketrash's Avatar
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    1972 650 Tornado locked up?

    I have a 650 Tornado that I picked up last year. The engine is locked, but it will shift through the gears and rolls around in neutral. I'm trying to figure out how to get the cylinders moving again but before tearing into it I wanted to look for opinions on things that may be wrong.

    It almost appears as if the kick starter is jammed.

    Due to the fact I have no way to know if I'll find replacement gaskets for the side cover, I have been reluctant to pull it off to see what's up inside there.

    I've had the cylinders soaking in Aerokroil for a year so if they were going to break free, they would have.

    The bike has 1000 miles on it and was stored in a barn or shed.






    I just thought I'd ask how likely it is that the kick starter is jammed. It doesn't really move one way or the other upon folding it out and trying to use it.

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    Benelli Wannabe ! ROBFM's Avatar
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    Rob Fitzmaurice™
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    Hi Luke & Welcome


    Drop Tornadoboy a PM or email, he's quite up on the old Tornado's I do believe or check on the motobi clubs site, (link is at the bottom of my page)

    I love the colour scheme of that 650, would be good to see it after some tlc


    good Luck





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    Senior Member dobbinuk's Avatar
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    Welcome Luke. I think the bike looks great already. Good luck with getting her to turn over. I take it you have bunged it in a high gear and pushed it to confirm if the pistons are moving?

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  5. #4
    Junior Member luketrash's Avatar
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    I'm back.

    Well here's my symptoms:

    1. The kick starter won't move up or down at all. You flip it out and it has maybe a couple of mm of play but really it seems jammed.

    2. If you put the bike into gear and roll it, things are bound up. I've pushed it back and forth and skid the rear tire in all gears, 1st - 5th.

    3. If you pull in on the clutch, the bike will free itself and roll while the clutch is apart. While the clutch is pulled you still cannot move the kick starter. On most of my other motorcycles the kick start lever moves if the clutch is pulled in.

    4. The bike shifts easily up and down through the gears, so I don't think a shifting fork is jammed in the transmission.


    So is the kick starter able to bind everything up and are these bikes known to have an issue that way?

    I've had Kroil sitting in the jugs for over a year now. Shining a light into the spark plug holes, you can see where the pistons have moved about 1/2 downward. But it's still feeling like it's locked up solid.

    Last year someone had first size over pistons on ebay and I wish I had bought them when I had the chance.

  6. #5
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    Does sound as though you need to go in there... have you got all the manuals?

    The gaskets are available from the German suppliers. Failing that it's easy if boring to cut one out of gasket sheet after marking it out using the cover with the mating surface coated with grease or something.

    My 650 had 5K on the clock and the kickstart would bind asif the cogs weren't meshing every other kick. Having run it for a few K this never happens now.

    The barrels are separate and the gaskets are orings or aluminium so it's easy to lift them a bit to check if the pistons are free.

    Chris

  7. #6
    Junior Member luketrash's Avatar
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    I've been messing a bit the past couple of nights. The right cylinder is the canidate for being locked up. Anything I spray into the sparkplug hole sits there. The stuff I've sprayed in the left cylinder leaks down and runs past the rings. The stuff in the right cylinder pools up (and has sat in there for over a year.)

    Also the exhaust valve on the right cylinder is open because that is how it sat for years and years. I did notice that the base gaskets are thick aluminum. I will probably pull the tank and try to get the head off and see if the exhaust valve is frozen and start working the cylinder to see if the piston will come loose.

    I was just really curious about the kicker because I though it should probably move if I have the clutch pulled, but I'm not sure how it's all linked up to the clutch and whatnot. The case bolts were all very easy to break loose, so that is good. I do have the service manual that Cosmopolitan Motors would have sold back in the day. It's not a Robert Bentley quality item or anything, but it looked at least as good as a Haynes.

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    Senior Member DenH's Avatar
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    hi luke i would remove cyl head then gently tap piston with wooden object this might just be enough to get it moving !

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    Quote Originally Posted by DenH View Post
    hi luke i would remove cyl head then gently tap piston with wooden object this might just be enough to get it moving !
    I have a '73 650 with the same issues:


    The bike was left with the intake valve open on the one side: parkedin 1976 and nothing done since. I've tried an impact wrench on the crank, pounding the cylinders with a wooden block etc.

    Then I found a spare engine that is spins free, and I'm putting together a single engine...


    Here is a method that I was going to try before I found the spare engine:


    Disassemble the engine.
    Scrape outer edge of piston with jacknife. This will help the oil to penetrate.
    Sand exposed rusty cylinder walls.
    Get the crud out of the engine.
    WD-40 (or favorite penetrating oil) both sides of piston.
    Block up with combustion end up (if the rod end is up, there is a danger of melting the babbitt on the end of rod).
    Pour one part ATF transmission oil, one part gas into cylinder (approx. 1 cup each).
    Light the oil/gas in the cylinder.
    Let the fire burn out.
    Let it cool slowly overnight.
    Lay engine on it's side. Hit the piston with a wooden block and maul.
    If the piston does not move, go back to step 5 and repeat.


  10. #9
    Junior Member luketrash's Avatar
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    Thanks! Those photos help a lot because I had no idea what was under the right side case cover.

    Do you think there's any way for the kick starter to 'jam' ?

    I'm pretty sure my right cylinder is locked up.

    Do any of you know of a place I can get oversized pistons other than waiting around on ebay?

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by luketrash View Post
    Thanks! Those photos help a lot because I had no idea what was under the right side case cover.

    Do you think there's any way for the kick starter to 'jam' ?

    I'm pretty sure my right cylinder is locked up.

    Do any of you know of a place I can get oversized pistons other than waiting around on ebay?

    No problem - I removed the clutch plates as you can see. Also note that I put a std nut on the end of the crank so I could wack it with an impact wrench.

    The kick start mechanism is very direct - I wouldn't count on it to put much force on moving the engine. Your problem statement was exactly what I experienced. The kickstart is geared directly to the crank....doesn't care about the clutch or the transmission. I don't think that's your issue.

    I'd pull the heads, they are very easy to pull - head gasket is an "O-ring" - and take a peak inside. Just remember to pull out the push rods before removing the heads.

    On pistons - there is a Australian firm - JP Piston http://www.jp.com.au/JPPistons.html
    that has pistons. Their may be a distributor in the US

    As well, I've been told that you can use Pistons you can use pistons from a Alfa Romeo GTV 2000 and they are easy to modify for a Tornado. I checked and they are 84mm, but I don't know.

    I am hoping to use my pistons, a hone and maybe new rings...we'll see.

    barry

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