Death rattle
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Thread: Death rattle

  1. #1
    Senior Member black nails's Avatar
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    John
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    Death rattle

    Whenever the revs drop below @ 1700 rpm, there is a horrible rattle that seems to be around the clutch area.
    So today I decided to investigate. clutch cover removed, started engine for split second, it sounded horrific, definitely clutch area, so poked about for a bit and found the small gearwheel that drives the clutch drum was loose! the locking washer was still staked over, so, got that tightened up, started up again, no difference! found some lateral play on the clutch basket, between the gearwheel and the basket, but no free play radially, weird, this is what I found;
    Name:  clutch basket.jpg
Views: 248
Size:  31.2 KB It looks like the unit has been stripped, and instead of riveting it back together, it has been welded on the rivet ends.
    This needs investigating. I have pulled and pushed everything else in this area, and all seems ok. Started up again for a split second, everything is quiet, hopefully this is it.
    Any suggestions gratefully received.
    will keep posted.

  2. #2
    Senior Member black nails's Avatar
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    John
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    Rebuilt the clutch today, I tightened the rivets on the clutch basket, and replaced the two caged needle roller bearings that the clutch basket rolls on, £7 each from a local bearing supplier. Everything in there is now without excessive play, I have also changed the oil to a thicker grade, originally, I used 10-30 full synthetic, I have now used 15-50 full synthetic.
    She is much quieter now, but there is still a rattle somewhere in the bowels of the gearbox, and the neutral light is now permanently on, I will look inside the chain case tomorrow, Also, the gear change seems a bit sticky, but that could be my new work boots though, I'll try it with my usual shoes tomorrow.

  3. #3
    Senior Member tucandugu's Avatar
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    I experienced a similar problem in my SEI. A nasty noise at low rpm and under throttle load. After disassembling the clutch I discovered that the needle bearings spacer was in wrong position, placed within the bearings instead behind them...Once assembled correctly the noise disappeared. You can see the correct assemble, step by step in my video. Just at the beginning is the right placing of the spacer.

    Good luck.
    Carles

    Benelli TNT 1130 Sport EVO 2008 - Benelli 750 Sei 1977 - Moto Guzzi 65cc 1957 - Vespa Primavera 125 1977

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  5. #4
    Senior Member black nails's Avatar
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    Thanks Carles, your excellent video is a bit deja-vous, I assembled mine exactly as you have done, there is an oil gallery in the shaft where the spacer would be if it were between the bearings, so my spacer is at the outside position as yours is. When I stripped it down, I found the spacer in the centre, and the shim was on the shaft before the basket, now that is also now in the correct position.
    When I ran it during the week, there is less noise, but it is still there. Also, when the engine is hot, the gear change is sticking occasionally around 3rd gear. It is as though the gearlever is not centering, if I slide my foot off the gearlever, so it 'flicks' back into the central position, all is well, but normal gentle release does not seem to allow the ratchet to go into the next position properly. The shaft movement is free, so I think the problem is with the desmodromic assy.
    I have had a look on a Honda forum regarding the same rattling noise on the 500 4's, it seems uneven running is the most likely cause, causing gearbox 'chatter' I am now wondering if this is related to my slightly dodgy camshaft.
    The last time I rode it, the weather was very hot, after my ride out, I have to climb a very steep hill to get home, as I went up, the engine was 'pinking' and losing a bit of power, so overheating seems to be happening, it looks like I will have to carefully go over everything again and maybe richen the mixture a bit, my pilot air screws are at 1 1/4 turns out, I do not remember the needle positions.
    It is lucky for me s.w.i.m.b.o. works weekends, leaving me alone to tinker.

  6. #5
    Member p65crosser's Avatar
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    Ian Jamieson
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    coils

    Quote Originally Posted by black nails View Post
    Thanks Carles, your excellent video is a bit deja-vous, I assembled mine exactly as you have done, there is an oil gallery in the shaft where the spacer would be if it were between the bearings, so my spacer is at the outside position as yours is. When I stripped it down, I found the spacer in the centre, and the shim was on the shaft before the basket, now that is also now in the correct position.
    When I ran it during the week, there is less noise, but it is still there. Also, when the engine is hot, the gear change is sticking occasionally around 3rd gear. It is as though the gearlever is not centering, if I slide my foot off the gearlever, so it 'flicks' back into the central position, all is well, but normal gentle release does not seem to allow the ratchet to go into the next position properly. The shaft movement is free, so I think the problem is with the desmodromic assy.
    I have had a look on a Honda forum regarding the same rattling noise on the 500 4's, it seems uneven running is the most likely cause, causing gearbox 'chatter' I am now wondering if this is related to my slightly dodgy camshaft.
    The last time I rode it, the weather was very hot, after my ride out, I have to climb a very steep hill to get home, as I went up, the engine was 'pinking' and losing a bit of power, so overheating seems to be happening, it looks like I will have to carefully go over everything again and maybe richen the mixture a bit, my pilot air screws are at 1 1/4 turns out, I do not remember the needle positions.
    It is lucky for me s.w.i.m.b.o. works weekends, leaving me alone to tinker.
    John
    Were those coils any use?

    Ian

  7. #6
    Senior Member black nails's Avatar
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    John
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    Thanks Ian, yes the coils are working, they will put me on nicely until I find some suitable new ones. There is someone in Cardiff Who seems to have loads of interesting electrical stuff, coils, reg rec's, etc. he is checking his stock for me.

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