Problematic Tornado Tre 900 - Page 2
Benelli Motorcycle Forum - Benelli Bike Discussions - Powered by vBulletin
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24
Like Tree5Likes

Thread: Problematic Tornado Tre 900

  1. #11
    Junior Member Balkan's Avatar
    Member #
    19579
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    7
    Thank you very much.
    I am away at the moment, but in a couple of weeks will be reunited with the bike and will measure the battery. Hopefully, the problem is there.
    Do you have any database with previous owners? Maybe the previous owner of my bike is member here. That would be cool.

    Kind regards,

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Name
    Mike
    Member #
    13446
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Devon
    Posts
    944
    Quote Originally Posted by Engenia View Post
    The 1130s have a higher compression which puts a real strain on the starter.
    I think Benelli came up with this mod in a vain attempt to solve the hot start problem.

    Have you any idea what causes the engine to tighten up when hot (with new Z25 fitted)? I'm wondering if some of the other gears (e.g. balance shaft or primary drive) are meshed too tightly as well, but survive so no update was ever done.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Member #
    14194
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    556
    Quote Originally Posted by Balkan View Post
    Thank you very much.
    I am away at the moment, but in a couple of weeks will be reunited with the bike and will measure the battery. Hopefully, the problem is there.
    Do you have any database with previous owners? Maybe the previous owner of my bike is member here. That would be cool.

    Kind regards,
    Well no previous forum members have posted to say they know the bike or to have owned it,Yet !
    Its mot history looks to be truthful and from when it was registered , its most likely you had the uprated Z25 gear , which certainly looks to be correct , so you have a spare , I think.
    It probably has the O7 onwards clutch basket, and being sold in 2013 , would have been brought up to date before sale. they were very discounted and real value for money.
    As you have been advised , coil stick failures are common , so not a cause for concern .
    Batteries do have to be tip top , so get new higher amp battery.
    Clutches last quite well, certainly longer than the mileage you have on yours , but need adjustment both at the cable and the locknut set up in the centre of the clutch (cover removed ) a very simple job. There is only a small amount of movement generated by the clutch lever to the clutch, so set up is critical. Not enough and the clutch will slip, to much and gear changes and selecting neutral , an art. Stack height of the combined steel and friction plates need to be 48 to 50 mm to start with

    Hope you get on well with the bike, have confidence , don,t fix it if it aint broke, ride it , enjoy it.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    BenelliForum.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #14
    Senior Member Engenia's Avatar
    Name
    Errol Kowald
    Member #
    27
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canberra, ACT, Australia
    Posts
    5,413
    Quote Originally Posted by mikerj View Post
    Have you any idea what causes the engine to tighten up when hot (with new Z25 fitted)?
    A hot engine is well lubricated, the pistons have expanded fully (reducing the gap to the walls) and the ring gaps are at their minimum, so cylinder pressure is at it's highest. The starter must deal with this higher pressure, and if the battery current is not sufficient, it won't be able to.

    I have an explanation (my best guess) of why the Z25 / intermediate gear clearance reduces when hot on my website. Cam did a similar calculation, but purely looking at the different expansion rates of steel and aluminium.
    hooroo, Errol www.engenia.com.au [136,351 km - and counting .....]

  6. #15
    Senior Member
    Name
    Cam Douglas
    Member #
    18563
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    157
    Quote Originally Posted by Engenia View Post
    A hot engine is well lubricated, the pistons have expanded fully (reducing the gap to the walls) and the ring gaps are at their minimum, so cylinder pressure is at it's highest.
    That's true, but I suspect the greatest effect comes from the heat in the surrounding metal of the engine. With a hot engine, the heat in the cylinder head, piston crown, valves and cylinder wall is transferred to the gas mixture as it compresses, raising its pressure higher than you'd get in a cold engine.


    Waring - Engineering nerd content below:

    Say the compression ratio is 10:1 and atmospheric pressure is 15psi (near enough). If we ignore the effect of valve timing, the compressed gas should be 150psi, right? So how come we normally see pressures higher than that when we do a compression test?

    It's actually not as simple as a fixed ratio. The above assumption is only true for isothermal (constant temperature) compression. But gas heats up as it compresses, which increases the pressure. Award yourself some nerd points if you remember Gay Lussac's Law from high school physics. If none of that heat escapes (constant enthalpy) it's called adiabatic compression.

    In reality, the compression is partly isothermal and partly adiabatic, meaning that the gas heats up but some of that heat is lost to the surroundings. More heat is lost in a cold engine, so it tends to be more toward the isothermal end of the spectrum, whereas in a hot engine it tends to be more adiabatic. So you'll get different results when doing compression tests on a hot engine than you'll get if testing the same engine when cold, because of the hot/cold gas compression issue, as well as the piston clearance changes mentioned by Errol. Workshop manuals will usually specify hot or cold test figures.

    The compression issue is further complicated by valve timing, or more specifically the inlet valve closure. The inlet valve closes some degrees of crank rotation ABDC, at which point the compression commences. So not all of the piston stroke is used to compress the gas mixture.
    Engenia and tractorman like this.

  7. #16
    Senior Member tractorman's Avatar
    Member #
    12818
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Woodstock, Tasmania, Aust.
    Posts
    144
    Never heard of Gay Lussac's Law , but familiar with Charles Law and Boyle's Law. These guys are quoted for the operational theories of the compression ignition engine. It all relates to the necessity of good cranking speed for easy starting. Nigel.

  8. #17
    Senior Member StingerWolf's Avatar
    Name
    StingerWolf
    Member #
    2827
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Munich Germany
    Posts
    1,047
    Murphy's law is missing... Its the only one I know

    Gesendet von meinem SM-P905 mit Tapatalk

  9. #18
    Senior Member
    Name
    Cam Douglas
    Member #
    18563
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    157
    Quote Originally Posted by tractorman View Post
    Never heard of Gay Lussac's Law , but familiar with Charles Law and Boyle's Law. These guys are quoted for the operational theories of the compression ignition engine. It all relates to the necessity of good cranking speed for easy starting. Nigel.
    There are 3 basic gas laws:
    Boyle's Law - pressure is inversely proportional to volume (all other things being equal).
    Charles' Law - volume is proportional to temperature.
    Gay Lussac's Law - pressure is proportional to temperature.

    Stick them all together an you get the universal gas law (P x V) / T = constant.
    tractorman likes this.

  10. #19
    Senior Member Engenia's Avatar
    Name
    Errol Kowald
    Member #
    27
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canberra, ACT, Australia
    Posts
    5,413
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprocket View Post
    There are 3 basic gas laws:
    Boyle's Law - pressure is inversely proportional to volume (all other things being equal).
    Charles' Law - volume is proportional to temperature.
    Gay Lussac's Law - pressure is proportional to temperature.

    Stick them all together an you get the universal gas law (P x V) / T = constant.
    Or, the equation I learnt in chemistry, The Ideal Gas Law
    PV=nRT
    where R is the only constant
    hooroo, Errol www.engenia.com.au [136,351 km - and counting .....]

  11. #20
    Junior Member Balkan's Avatar
    Member #
    19579
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    7
    I feel so dumb

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Sponsors

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Google+