Stalls when hot et al
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Thread: Stalls when hot et al

  1. #1
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    Stalls when hot et al

    Hi Guys, I have recently bought a 2013 TreK 1130 and have a few questions. I have a hot stall issue which I have been told is caused by the map being too lean. However when it is hot and I give it some throttle is blows a bit of black smoke which seems to suggest it it too rich. The inside of the exhaust is also black and not white but I don't know if this means anything today with modern exhaust systems. The bike has done 6k and has the butterfly valve in the collector is disabled with no other mods.
    I also have an issue with the clutch dragging. Is there an adjuster for this?
    Finally it is almost impossible to find neutral. Could this be the dragging clutch or just chain tension. It's also diificult to get right down to first and I often seem to be in second or third on takeoff.
    Any suggestions would be appreciated as would any recommendations of good mechanics or map guys on the Sunshine Coast Qld

  2. #2
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    ron daly
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    Hi and welcome, someone with more knowledge will come along soon but if the clutch has a problem i suppose that could be involved with the problem of getting gears, hope you get sorted soon.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron d View Post
    Hi and welcome, someone with more knowledge will come along soon but if the clutch has a problem i suppose that could be involved with the problem of getting gears, hope you get sorted soon.
    I found the same problem with finding neutral was down to simply changing to a different brand of oil. Mine was fine untilan il change then neutral ws a bugger. Drained oil and refilled with different brand, problem solved.

    Try a new oil and filter change.

    Hot start issue , if you are capable of working on your bike you need to remove the clutch cover to have a look at the "z25" gear to see if is smooth or rough cast beneath the teeth.

    Its not difficult ,especially if you drain the oil anyway for an oil change. The smooth casting on the z25 is the newer (supposedly) gear. But also worth while checking the alternator bolt after removing the alternator and looking at the belville washer if has been fitted. Plentyof info on the subject on the forum.

    Your cat may be clogged which would give you poor running and black crap.

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  5. #4
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    Rolf Wittwer
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    Hi Peter,
    I have all the same issues with my 2013 TRE K. Fortunately most of my riding is on the highway and I have learnt to live with them. The exhaust and intake butterflies were disabled and an Akrapovic muffler installed when I bought the bike. The engine was stalling frequently when I slowed at intersections. I upped the idle speed to about 1400 rpm indicated. I have an inkling the injection system doesn't cope well with quick throttle blips, so I try to minimise the throttle blip on each down-change. Stalls are now rare. There is a flat spot just off the idle but it seems to be less noticeable with a dB killer installed in the tailpipe. Perhaps this suggests the map might work better with the exhaust butterfly enabled to give more back pressure. I might try it with the butterflies re-enabled but there is probably no option but the expense of a dyno remap to get the best out of the bike; as recommended by other forum members. My faster idle makes the clunk on gear engagement worse. It seems to be more noticeable since the cool weather arrived. I have fiddled with drive chain tension and clutch adjustment. It may have helped but did not eliminate clutch drag on my bike. I think Slip may be onto the issue. As a tight-fisted self-funded retiree I am using inexpensive semi-synthetic 10W-50 oil. A synthetic oil with a better viscosity index should give less clutch drag. I will try synthetic 10W-40. However I have found neutral selection is easy while stationary if the clutch is slipped a bit to creep forward a few cm then neutral selected just as the clutch lever is pulled in again. It works every time. Good luck!
    Last edited by Redbaron57; 05-02-2017 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Reword to avoid misunderstanding

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron57 View Post
    Hi Peter,
    I have all the same issues with my 2013 TRE K. Fortunately most of my riding is on the highway and I have learnt to live with them. The exhaust and intake butterflies were disabled and an Akrapovic muffler installed when I bought the bike. The engine was stalling frequently when I slowed at intersections. I upped the idle speed to about 1400 rpm indicated. I have an inkling the injection system doesn't cope well with quick throttle blips, so I try to minimise the throttle blip on each down-change. Stalls are now rare. There is a flat spot just off the idle but it seems to be less noticeable with a dB killer installed in the tailpipe. Perhaps this suggests the map might work better with the exhaust butterfly enabled to give more back pressure. I might try it with the butterflies re-enabled but there is probably no option but the expense of a dyno remap to get the best out of the bike; as recommended by other forum members. My faster idle makes the clunk on gear engagement worse. It seems to be more noticeable since the cool weather arrived. I have fiddled with drive chain tension and clutch adjustment. It may have helped but did not eliminate clutch drag on my bike. I think Slip may be onto the issue. As a tight-fisted self-funded retiree I am using inexpensive semi-synthetic 10W-50 oil. A synthetic oil with a better viscosity index should give less clutch drag. I will try synthetic 10W-40. However I have found neutral selection is easy while stationary if the clutch is slipped a bit to creep forward a few cm then neutral selected just as the clutch is released. It works every time. Good luck!
    Thanks for the info. It's obviously something I will have to learn to live with. My chain is also too tight so I will adjust that and also increase my idle rpm. Shame about blipping confusing the bike as it sounds so good.
    I'm also a self funded retiree so I don't have unlimited funds to spend at Italian bike shops but at least I have plenty of time to play around with it.


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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterM View Post
    Thanks for the info. It's obviously something I will have to learn to live with. My chain is also too tight so I will adjust that and also increase my idle rpm. Shame about blipping confusing the bike as it sounds so good.
    I'm also a self funded retiree so I don't have unlimited funds to spend at Italian bike shops but at least I have plenty of time to play around with it.


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    I'd say you don't need an expensive dealership, take your time getting to know how to take the tank off (without damaging it, loosen the handlebar clamps and rotate the bars slightly forward helps)

    Get to know taking the airbox off and look at the coil connectors and plugs and you will go a long way to getting to know your bike. I'd personally say it's worthwhile fitting a dash switch to shut the dip headlights off at constant town idle speeds as the battery can struggle to cope. Just fit bright t10 leds for the sidelights instead of the original versions.

    The other thing i would say is that the idle adjuster on the nearside needs pulled out of its location and a bigger turn button fitted to enable gloved use. Trying to adjust in town is a nightmare trying to find the bugger.

  8. #7
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    Rolf Wittwer
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    No more stalling!

    Now here is an odd thing - my TRE K does not stall anymore! It was often cranky at low revs and pone to stalling on return to idle at intersections. It also died a few times on the highway at cruise speed. Checks of the tip switch, side stand switch and stepper didn't find anything conclusive. Then I damaged my Walbro ECU by carelessly running without the engine earths properly secured. It appears the alternator earth current went through the ECU and fried some components with the result I couldn't turn the engine off. I fitted a used ECU from an R160, loaded my original map and reset the TPS. Now the bike runs nicely, idles smoothly at 1250 rpm and has not stalled again. The only possible explanation I found was a loose terminal on the injection relay discovered during my explorations. I tightened it by removal from the socket and a squeeze of the pliers before refitting. Using a tip from this forum I have also concluded that the chain adjustment specification of 15 mm, as per the manual, is too tight, because it gets tighter when the rear suspension is compressed. This caused nasty vibration on acceleration and loosening of the sprocket. I compressed the suspension with a ratchet strap to align the centres of the sprocket, swing arm pivot and rear axle then adjusted the chain to my satisfaction. There is still some vibration on acceleration in the low gears through 3000 rpm but it does not feel so nasty. I put that down to frame resonance resulting from compromised rigidity where the tubes kink around the engine without lateral bracing. I will keep checking the sprocket nut but hope it will stay tight now.
    Last edited by Redbaron57; 09-18-2017 at 10:41 PM.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron57 View Post
    Now here is an odd thing - my TRE K does not stall anymore! It was often cranky at low revs and pone to stalling on return to idle at intersections. It also died a few times on the highway at cruise speed. Checks of the tip switch, side stand switch and stepper didn't find anything conclusive. Then I damaged my Walbro ECU by carelessly running without the engine earths properly secured. It appears the alternator earth current went through the ECU and fried some components with the result I couldn't turn the engine off. I fitted a used ECU from an R160, loaded my original map and reset the TPS. Now the bike runs nicely, idles smoothly at 1250 rpm and has not stalled again. The only possible explanation I found was a loose terminal on the injection relay discovered during my explorations. I tightened it by removal from the socket and a squeeze of the pliers before refitting. Using a tip from this forum I have also concluded that the chain adjustment specification of 15 mm, as per the manual, is too tight, because it gets tighter when the rear suspension is compressed. This caused nasty vibration on acceleration and loosening of the sprocket. I compressed the suspension with a ratchet strap to align the centres of the sprocket, swing arm pivot and rear axle then adjusted the chain to my satisfaction. There is still some vibration on acceleration in the low gears through 3000 rpm but it does not feel so nasty. I put that down to frame resonance resulting from compromised rigidity where the tubes kink around the engine without lateral bracing. I will keep checking the sprocket nut but hope it will stay tight now.
    Thanks for that. I have had the bike remapped three times now as I thought some low battery issues might be losing the map. This hasn’t improved the problem so I am getting some new coil sticks from Tech Autos in the UK. Thanks for the advice re chain, I also noticed the low rev<2000 vibrations as well. Backing off the chain seems to have fixed this. Still can’t get neutral with the motor running though.
    Thanks
    Peter.


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  10. #9
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    Spoke too soon!

    I spoke too soon! My TRE K still does not always behave well. After an 800km ride to Melbourne on a 26 degree C day we hit a traffic jamb on Westgate bridge. With the coolant temperature a bit over the centre of the gauge the bike got really cranky on the Economy map below 2000rpm. It was not happy to crawl along at walking pace and it stalled several times. It was better on the power map but still stalled several times on return to idle and while puttering along at very low revs. Interestingly, previously when my TPS was reading 2% with the butterflies fully closed it ran really nicely at low revs but used 7.5 L/100km in cruise, covering the exhaust outlet with soft fluffy soot. Now with the TPS correctly set it returned 5.9 L/100km on the Power map for the 1000 km return trip from Phillip Island. That is no worse than the Economy map and possibly a bit better but it seemed to surge on slightly trailing throttle at 3500 rpm. Given my impoverished state after replacing the clutch housing, before committing to spend more money on a dyno remap I will try richening the map at low revs (unless anyone out there has a TRE K 1130 map they are willing to share). The good news is that since fixing the loose terminal on the Injection relay it has not cut-out in cruise (and it still goes like stink over 5000 rpm).

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron57 View Post
    I spoke too soon! My TRE K still does not always behave well. After an 800km ride to Melbourne on a 26 degree C day we hit a traffic jamb on Westgate bridge. With the coolant temperature a bit over the centre of the gauge the bike got really cranky on the Economy map below 2000rpm. It was not happy to crawl along at walking pace and it stalled several times. It was better on the power map but still stalled several times on return to idle and while puttering along at very low revs. Interestingly, previously when my TPS was reading 2% with the butterflies fully closed it ran really nicely at low revs but used 7.5 L/100km in cruise, covering the exhaust outlet with soft fluffy soot. Now with the TPS correctly set it returned 5.9 L/100km on the Power map for the 1000 km return trip from Phillip Island. That is no worse than the Economy map and possibly a bit better but it seemed to surge on slightly trailing throttle at 3500 rpm. Given my impoverished state after replacing the clutch housing, before committing to spend more money on a dyno remap I will try richening the map at low revs (unless anyone out there has a TRE K 1130 map they are willing to share). The good news is that since fixing the loose terminal on the Injection relay it has not cut-out in cruise (and it still goes like stink over 5000 rpm).
    http://www.tuneecu.com/TuneECU_En/index.html
    See - https://www.benelliforum.com/forum/tr...erfect-me.html



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