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What to look for in a Tornado RS?

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GuzziHero

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I am a long time Moto Guzzi owner but have always admired the Benelli range from afar. In fact, when buying my Griso 1100, I was also considering the TNT along with the Triumph Street Four.

Now I am in the financial position to consider buying one to sit alongside my Guzzi and Yamaha R6.

I have seen this listing on eBay: Benelli tornado TRE RS | eBay

Not only is it pretty much mint looking, the service history is extensive, but I still have a few questions.

1/ I am very accustomed to Italian 'character' by having several Guzzis over the last 17 years. Are there any particular issues I should be concerned about aka 3-strand wiring, any ECU or other electrical issues, any areas which can hide serious corrosion?

2/ What are parts and service prices like? Being an unusual machine, I appreciate that costs will be higher than UJMs, but how much higher would I be looking at?

3/ At 9000 miles, what should I be looking at on the service history? I believe that the clutch basket was subject to a recall at some point, how would I be able to tell if this has been done if it is not documented?

4/ Is £4000 a reasonable price for a near mint RS? I would try to haggle to possibly £3500, but would settle at anything above that if it is as good as it looks.

5/ A more esoteric question: what would I be looking for regarding handling traits as compared to the Yamaha R6 / Guzzi Griso? I understand that it will be heavier and less front-biased than the R6, but are there any giveaways that things were not right?

6/ I would be considering taking it to at least one or two trackdays, is it a suitable bike for being ridden hard for extended periods?

Thank you for any help and advice you could give.
 
#3 ·
GuzziHero said:
Hi,

I am a long time Moto Guzzi owner but have always admired the Benelli range from afar. In fact, when buying my Griso 1100, I was also considering the TNT along with the Triumph Street Four.

Now I am in the financial position to consider buying one to sit alongside my Guzzi and Yamaha R6.

I have seen this listing on eBay: Benelli tornado TRE RS | eBay

Not only is it pretty much mint looking, the service history is extensive, but I still have a few questions.

1/ I am very accustomed to Italian 'character' by having several Guzzis over the last 17 years. Are there any particular issues I should be concerned about aka 3-strand wiring, any ECU or other electrical issues, any areas which can hide serious corrosion?

2/ What are parts and service prices like? Being an unusual machine, I appreciate that costs will be higher than UJMs, but how much higher would I be looking at?

3/ At 9000 miles, what should I be looking at on the service history? I believe that the clutch basket was subject to a recall at some point, how would I be able to tell if this has been done if it is not documented?

4/ Is £4000 a reasonable price for a near mint RS? I would try to haggle to possibly £3500, but would settle at anything above that if it is as good as it looks.

5/ A more esoteric question: what would I be looking for regarding handling traits as compared to the Yamaha R6 / Guzzi Griso? I understand that it will be heavier and less front-biased than the R6, but are there any giveaways that things were not right?

6/ I would be considering taking it to at least one or two trackdays, is it a suitable bike for being ridden hard for extended periods?

Thank you for any help and advice you could give.
Click to expand...
I made the same transition. Went from a 2000 Guzzi V11 Sport to the RS. I miss my V11 but it's another animal. The RS is an absolute beast compared to the Guzzi and what I found surprising is that it's more comfortable.

1. I haven't had any serious electrical issues except for the aftermarket alarm which caused all kinds of issues. But that wasn't the bike's fault. The display clock never keeps time correctly and the fuel sending unit signal degrades so the guage is not accurate. Other than that, nothing electrical to worry about which I've experienced except the coils (see #3). Finding neutral is a chore and is usually done while moving. If you can do it from a dead stop, you've got a real gem. It can be fixed, but it takes an artist, not a mechanic to do so.

2. Parts and service are quite a bit more on the Nelli. Look at a 50% increase in mx costs.

3. The clutch basket should have 2007 stamped on it somewhere. The earlier models were recalled because of spring breakage. You will want to see the Z25 gear replaced. This is a MUST! Search the thread for info. The engine cut off switch in the airbox should be dampened or bypassed. They are known to cause false shut offs. Also, you'll want to check the airbox drain modification. The original water drain is directly over the middle coil. Water drips directly on the coil and ruins it. So there's a mod which routes a tube through the drain and away from the coils. The 3 coils should be checked for corrosion. Benelli replacement coils are $300 each, but Engenia on this forum (who has designed an amazing web page full of great info on the bike) discovered you can use a Citroen coil which is only $35. This is Engenia's web page Engenia's Benelli Tornado Novocentro Tre
The worst problem I had was the freeze plug blew while I was riding and left me stranded and has happened to quite a few others here. It seems as if it's a matter of when not if it will blow.

4. I can't comment on the price in your location. I paid around that price 4 years ago with 2,500 miles on the bike. You might be able to haggle, but the bike is rare so price is not dictated by a true market value since there isn't much of a market. It's worth what you're willing to pay.

5. I've found the bike's performance absolutely stunning. I've changed the gearing to a 15/43 final drive ratio for more low end torque. The handling is sharp and has a lighter feel than it actually is. I can keep up with the bigger/newer/lighter bikes without much effort. I've never ridden an R6 so can't comment there, but youtube has a Tornado/R6 comparison somewhere if you do a search. I think the video claimed the R6 was the better bike overall but not by much. Compared to my V11, the RS is at an entirely different level. The power and handling is no comparison. Fuel mileage however is another story. Nelli is a thirsty girl for sure.

6. The harder you ride Nelli, the more she likes it. It is not a bike for commuting. As you get faster and in the twisties, it feels at home... gets more comfortable, and is very confidence inspiring.

Hope this helps!
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
That helps a great deal, thank you! I might be getting this to replace my R6 (never the Guzzi, that is my dream bike for several reasons), or to compliment the pair.

I have a couple of follow up questions if you could oblige.

1/ You say the fuel gauge accuracy suffers over time. Is there an alternative/backup such as a reserve tank, or a low fuel warning light. Is any fuel warning light accurate, or tied to the gauge? Having ridden a Guzzi V50/II and a California, I have become a master at finding neutrals. I swear the V50 box went 1-N-2-N-3-N-4-N-5!

3/ Is there any way to check the clutch basket and/or the airbox cut off switch without disassembly? The latter sounds like an easy fix, so that isn't essential, but the clutch basket could be an expensive replacement part. With this RS being a 2007 model, it may have been done from the factory.

5/ Sounds good! I recently rode a friend's Triumph Daytona 900 and was impressed by how smooth the motor was.

6/ Very much like the Griso then. Seems Italian bikes love to rev!

Thank you again for your valuable advice.
 
#5 ·
You might want to read this thread first..........

http://www.benelliforum.com/forum/tornado-tre/16692-still-looking-tornado.html


And in particular, this reply re the bike you were looking at....

"Found out some more history on the bike which I first looked at.It'sa place called Dronfield and has just been relisted on the 'bay.
Some more pics have been posted now and from an invoice I got a phone number for a previous owner in Northampton.Had a good chat with him and found out that the engine had done a total grenade after a bad repair by Robinson's of Rochdale.After hearing all the problems he'd had I've decided to leave this one alone."
 
#6 ·
GuzziHero said:
3/ Is there any way to check the clutch basket and/or the airbox cut off switch without disassembly? The latter sounds like an easy fix, so that isn't essential, but the clutch basket could be an expensive replacement part. With this RS being a 2007 model, it may have been done from the factory.
Click to expand...
Checking either clutch or tip-over switch requires some dismantling. It's quite likely that the RS was manufactured before 2007 (lots of Tornados were), the number plate only proves when it was registered.

The clutch basket is less of an issue than the Z25. Some of the early clutches have done pretty high mileages with no problems.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
JPF said:
You might want to read this thread first..........

http://www.benelliforum.com/forum/tornado-tre/16692-still-looking-tornado.html


And in particular, this reply re the bike you were looking at....

"Found out some more history on the bike which I first looked at.It'sa place called Dronfield and has just been relisted on the 'bay.
Some more pics have been posted now and from an invoice I got a phone number for a previous owner in Northampton.Had a good chat with him and found out that the engine had done a total grenade after a bad repair by Robinson's of Rochdale.After hearing all the problems he'd had I've decided to leave this one alone."
Click to expand...
Wow, that sounds pretty worrying indeed. Thank you very much for this info. I think I shall avoid this particular example as well.

Thank you also mikerj!
 
#8 ·
There's no reserve, but there's a low fuel light that comes on. I just look in the tank to verify. I don't trust the guage. Mine does err on the low side so I usually have more fuel than it indicates. But once the fuel light comes on, I know I have about 50km left.
 
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Discussion starter · #9 ·
I was wondering, is there a list of the chassis numbers affected by the weak clutch basket/Z25 gears? Just so that if I enquire about a Tornado, I know which ones have been remedied and which have not.

Also, how much are the relevant parts, so I can take the cost into account when trying to make a deal with a seller?

Thanks!
 
#10 ·
GuzziHero said:
1/ You say the fuel gauge accuracy suffers over time. Is there an alternative/backup such as a reserve tank, or a low fuel warning light. Is any fuel warning light accurate, or tied to the gauge?
Click to expand...
The gauge is really only inaccurate at high fuel levels, where the resistance of the sender needs to be more accurate. At low levels, the resistance change is much wider per litre. I've found that the low fuel light comes on consistently at the same fuel level, so you can depend on that. On a trip where the speed doesn't change much, I can bank on getting 60 km once the fuel light first flashes, and when I do the calcs, it consistently works out to over 70.
Of course, if the wiper in the sensor has worn to a knife point all bets are off, as it will stick at a lower level than true. (see the link above)
3/ Is there any way to check the clutch basket and/or the airbox cut off switch without disassembly?
Click to expand...
Here's a link to how to stop the cut-off switch from operating under vibration. DON'T BYPASS IT!
Don't get too concerned about the '03 clutch basket. One or two have failed at low mileages, but that is rare. They do tend to be slightly noisier due to the rattling cush springs. I have one in the shed that has done many tens of thousands and it's fine. I only swapped it out to see if an '07 clutch was any quieter - it was.

GuzziHero said:
I was wondering, is there a list of the chassis numbers affected by the weak clutch basket/Z25 gears? Just so that if I enquire about a Tornado, I know which ones have been remedied and which have not.
Click to expand...
The only one I know of can be found here. It was compiled from details sent me by their owners.
 
#11 ·
GuzziHero said:
I was wondering, is there a list of the chassis numbers affected by the weak clutch basket/Z25 gears? Just so that if I enquire about a Tornado, I know which ones have been remedied and which have not.

Also, how much are the relevant parts, so I can take the cost into account when trying to make a deal with a seller?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
When i bought my RS I was assured, and backed up by the service report and receipt that the Z25 and clutch basket as well as every other recall had been done..........However, when i took her to KJM they said they hadn't done it and nor had Bennets up in Barnsley as they both, as matter of routine, put a small centre punch mark in the VIN plate by the head stock on the O/S.

Mine has been done by DK motorcycles in Stoke.

They are, as everyone else has stated, a bit of an animal, mine sounds like a Ferrari at full tilt when annoying the locals in my village apparently, and as well as being very comfortable to ride they are also very easy to handle, they drop in very well, power out and handle much like my old Honda RVF 400, akin to being on rails. There was another RS on ebay that was going very cheap and was practically brand new, search for her, she had 900 miles on her i think, a bargain to.

Fuel as everyone will tell you is dire, when i bought mine i could get about 160 miles to a tank with a PC3 but since removing that should would struggle to do 70mpg, but that's been due to an electrical issue.

They look great, sound better, go even better, good choice of tyre available, a fair priced used parts market, bar the mirrors, don't snap a bloody mirror FFS!

Andy on here was thinking about selling his, that'd be a steal if you do as its been fully rebuilt by someone very competent and its in the even more illusive Yellow guise.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Thank you very much for the centrepunch mark info. I am planning to pop to Superbike Factory next Monday if either of their Tornados are still in. D&K is very local to me. I see the clutch basket kit is only £120 so its not too expensive, and I am a semi-competent bolt thrower so should be able to fit it myself.

One more stupid question: how much of an advantage does the RS have over the standard? I know on paper it has marginally more power and torque but would I be disappointed in the standard if I rode it back to back with an RS, do you think?
 
#13 ·
GuzziHero said:
Thank you very much for the centrepunch mark info. I am planning to pop to Superbike Factory next Monday if either of their Tornados are still in. D&K is very local to me. I see the clutch basket kit is only £120 so its not too expensive, and I am a semi-competent bolt thrower so should be able to fit it myself.

One more stupid question: how much of an advantage does the RS have over the standard? I know on paper it has marginally more power and torque but would I be disappointed in the standard if I rode it back to back with an RS, do you think?
Click to expand...
I first caught the Tornado bug at 19, I rode a standard brand new TRE and in the space of 60 mins nearly wet myself, I did cry, I was smiling ear to ear and also shaking. Got off and could have cried again as the new price was well out of reach for me.
Fast forward 8 years and an RS came up for sale locally at £50 less than what my RVF sold for, bought it without seeing it and wow! Wow! Wow!
The torque seems more impressive than I remember, the fancy parts are to die for (radial Brembo's, OZ racing wheels, Titanium Arrow slip on exhaust system & carbon bits)
It just had a better look in my opinion, slightly more aggressive stance and fancy machines top yoke plus better steering dampener amongst other things.

I loved mine instantly, I wouldn't advise your first ride in the rain though (twitchy bum moment)
 
#17 ·
The engine braking on the RS is pretty brutal unless the fuel cut off Mod has been done on the bike you buy. I loved mine as for the first year I was riding with a slightly warped front disc and the rear was shot. Bought new ones but the bikes been off the road for so long getting new paint and new sensors etc etc it just wasn't worth fitting until she's all done. Managed to get her pretty close to sorted about an hour ago, so tyres and brakes fitting this week and an MOT and she should be sorted :)
 
#19 ·
Engenia said:
What's the "fuel cut off Mod"?
Click to expand...
Grounding the live feed on the fuel pump on the RS as its different from the standard TRE. To gain this mod I just fitted a standard TRE loom to my RS, that way engine braking isn't as brutal and also solves the cutting out issue when rolling off the throttle that the RS is renowned for.

I think, from my brief encounter with it two weeks back H1 and E1 in the ECU connectors need to be grounded. Don't quote me though, I'll post a link later if I can find one. My old RS loom and the replacement RS loom both had issues so I replaced with a brand new TRE one instead solving all my issues :)
 
#20 ·
GuzziHero said:
I see the clutch basket kit is only £120 so its not too expensive,
Click to expand...

Sadly, this is about £400 less than it actually costs!!! Its nearer the £500 mark for the basket im afraid!!!! As Will says above, mine will be available from approx the 12th of June on my return from the TT. You can see everything i have done throughout the forum mate, no hoidden secrets whatsoever and i would pit it against any RS, ANYWHERE!!!:D
 
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