Newbie with insane idea

MadMan · Nov 21, 2015

Hi,

I have lost my mind and decided owning a Benelli might bring more joy than tears.

After many years of fast jap bikes (ZZR1100 / ZX9R's / ZZR1400) I decided to preserve my licence and get all comfy with an Adventure bike, this worked well and I am riding a lot more and for much more of the year, but...

...I missed having a nice bike to clean and polish, so I started searching for a "Modern Classic" Jap bike, and found a 2008 ZZR1400 cost about the same now as I sold my 2008 ZZR1400 for back in 2010, older Jap bikes (Early R1's / Blades / GSX-R's of the 80's and 90's) are going for silly money even when they have been butchered by previous owners - and you can never be sure one in mint original condition is not an ex track / race bike.

During my searches I came across some Benelli's, typically in much better condition with lower mileages (and much less chance of track abuse) - a deal seemed imminent, until I researched a bit and found out about the issues, which explained why they are so cheap.

Still, I figured if I barely ride the thing and find one with very low mileage it may last me a few years until it needs the 12k engine rebuild (Not sure what Benelli were thinking, 2-strokes of the 70's had longer engine life)

Not sure what I want now though, hence my appearance here, started off wanting a 900 Tornado - then found out the made an 1130, then found the Tre, although not originally looking for another Adv bike (I have two already) but this looks like a Sporty Adv bike - and they seem to sell for next to nothing.

So, here I am, possibly to stay, unless I find that Gem of a Jap "classic" before I find a low mileage, fully sorted, warranteed Benelli at the right price.

Fastfishes · Nov 21, 2015

12k engine rebuild??? I have seen quite a few with over 50k on with no issues? you have worried me know as my Tornado has 10.5k it? can you explain please? thank you

ianh · Nov 21, 2015

Fastfishes said:
12k engine rebuild??? I have seen quite a few with over 50k on with no issues? you have worried me know as my Tornado has 10.5k it? can you explain please? thank you

No 12k. rebuild needed. Valve clearance yes but hardly a rebuild. Camchain at 15K , But no biggie!

DivingDog · Nov 21, 2015

Not sure where that idea came from. You'll need to check valve clearances around 8 to 12k - I had 7 shims replaced this spring but otherwise nothing to note

MadMan · Nov 21, 2015

Fastfishes said:
12k engine rebuild??? I have seen quite a few with over 50k on with no issues? you have worried me know as my Tornado has 10.5k it? can you explain please? thank you

Looking through the service manual I noticed the cam chain needs replacing at 12k, I assume this is a huge (Expensive) job.

Going on experience with most Jap bikes a Tappet service is typically about £600 in a main dealer, I am assuming the Benelli is not an easy bike to work on and labour will be quite high even if the engine does not need to be removed / stripped.

Finding it difficult to get prices for servicing, and it also seems all the dealers are about 200 miles away from me, and looking through here most of them are crooks! Bennets seem to be the only dealer who has not ripped someone off or left the sump plug loose (and that was the only ex Benelli dealer anywhere near me)

Nice to know some have clocked 50k, quite impressive, I was expecting them to be scrap by 30k (I was planning on doing no more than 1k a year so as not to wear the thing out) not seen any for sale with much more than 10k on to date - hoping to find one with under 5k on the clock so the "big service" will be a few years away.

ianh · Nov 21, 2015

Just get main service done at Bennett's.
Camchain is something like $30 and if replaced at valve service not much more Labour. They are only bikes at the end of the day, nuts and bolts. They do like a service from those who know their little foibles but most scare stories are borne of ignorance of the brand.
My 1130 tornado has well over 20k and sweet as a nut.
My 900 was great till I broke it at a trackday, but 22k on that one too. Loving every minute!

MadMan · Nov 21, 2015

Thanks guys,

I thought the cam chain was likely to be an endless jobbie and require a lot of work.

With the bikes sounding more durable than I thought it probably opens up a few more options, plus if I get one and REALLY like it I may be tempted to get another.

ianh · Nov 21, 2015

MadMan said:
Thanks guys,

I thought the cam chain was likely to be an endless jobbie and require a lot of work.

With the bikes sounding more durable than I thought it probably opens up a few more options, plus if I get one and REALLY like it I may be tempted to get another.

Or even 3 😁😁😁

Engenia · Nov 22, 2015

MadMan said:
I thought the cam chain was likely to be an endless jobbie and require a lot of work.
With the bikes sounding more durable than I thought it probably opens up a few more options, plus if I get one and REALLY like it I may be tempted to get another.

It IS endless. The same as used in a GSX750 - a D.I.D. 219FTH(LE)x118, commonly available in the UK.
If you want the chain to last longer than 25,000km, just put TNT Sport valve springs in it and reduce the rev limit to the Sport's - 10,500 I think. That raises it to 45,000 km, but limits your power. I never reach the rev limiter, so it's not an issue for me.
(here's how you change it)

As far as durability goes, if you use fully synthetic oil there's no reason why you won't get 200,000 kms out of it, and probably double that, judging by the specs of my bore at 100,000 kms - perfect.
I'm now north of 110,000 kms.

MadMan · Nov 22, 2015

Thanks for the info.

I would let a specialist do this, my main concern was buying a bike that was coming up for the chain change and finding myself faced with a huge bill - I know just changing the Belts on most Ducati's is hugely expensive and thought a chain replacement on the Benelli would be far worse.

With my proposed low mileage use I am unlikely to even need to do this more than once.

Does anyone know how much a full tappet service and chain change is at a UK specialist?

If it is not too much it probably opens up a few more bikes to my wallet, I had been looking for examples below 5,000 miles just do dodge this expense, and actively avoiding any that had more than 7,000 miles on them.

tomr10 · Nov 22, 2015

My 900 is for sale open to offers

MadMan · Nov 22, 2015

tomr10 said:
My 900 is for sale open to offers

Looks nice, but to be honest I am after a totally stock (except essential mods) bike.

Don't even want an alarm as in my experience they are more trouble than they are worth.

There is one on E-Bay (PN06 SXD if anyone knows it) but the dealer does not look like the typical rare exotica type of dealer, will not give me chassis number and will not answer questions about the mods that have (or have not) been done.

He did send me a "copy" of the service history, these were blurred photo's probably taken on his phone, I could not even make out the dealers name on the headings and none of the detail was even close to readable.

Benelli Tornado 898, 2006, Green / Silver, 12 months M.O.T, TRE Novecento, | eBay

Some appear in outlets for "we buy any bike" so I wonder if owners desperate to sell them have got rid of them this way, but the problem is when you ring up they know nothing about the bikes.

A nice looking red one is up for a good price with under 500 miles:

2009 09 BENELLI TORNADO 900 NOVECENTO TRE | eBay

But again no history of mods, they are not even sure if it came via the official importer - all sounded a little fishy to me, they said they would find out the details and call me back - but never did.

Luckily I am in no hurry, don't mind if it takes a year to find one, I am looking for the "right" one - which ideally is a Green one (900 or 1130)

TOTDY · Nov 22, 2015

MadMan said:
Does anyone know how much a full tappet service and chain change is at a UK specialist?
If it is not too much it probably opens up a few more bikes to my wallet, I had been looking for examples below 5,000 miles just do dodge this expense, and actively avoiding any that had more than 7,000 miles on them.

When I bought my Tre it had 8k miles on the clock, took it to Bennetts and they gave it a full service.
Which included striping the clutch and checking that all upgrades had been done.
They did the valve clearances, replaced the core plug, Z25 washer, Alternator washer and rubbers, and during the process corrected lots of minor faults. Re-mapped it and test road it, it now runs very crisply.
Charged me six hours labour plus parts, the bill was well under £500.
Did well over 5k miles in the first 12 months with out encountering a single problem apart from the rictus of the face from so much grinning

MadMan · Nov 22, 2015

Thanks,

Thinking of allowing £500 for a service / check / remap regardless of age.

Unlikely to do more than 2k per year, just don't have good sportsbike roads where I am, got some OK scenic unclassified roads around the Cotswolds on my doorstep which are pleasant enough but more suited to the lazy characteristics of the Super Tenere.

Likely to do a day trip or two to Wales and a few runs to bike events on the Benelli in the course of a year which should keep mileage low (Under 2000) If I really find I love one I may be tempted by a Tre as well for the Lanes on the best of days.

Got the Super Tenere for trips to the Mountains of Europe and a V-Strom 650 for commutes.

TOTDY · Nov 22, 2015

You’ll be surprised at how comfortable the Tre is on a long run I’ve done two camping trips with all he gear and two long runs staying with friends this year, it’s a mile eater 500 m in a day without getting exhausted, but then I’ve always liked sports tourers.

Fastfishes · Nov 22, 2015

I could be wrong but think main service with chain and tappets incl is around the £600 mark

MadMan · Nov 22, 2015

Fastfishes said:
I could be wrong but think main service with chain and tappets incl is around the £600 mark

Thanks - to everyone who has kindly replied to answer my stupid questions, I am starting to feel a lot happier about this crazy idea of buying a Benelli maybe not being all that crazy,

From what I have been told by you guys / found poking through old threads:

Pre-purchase check list:

Clutch Basket Replaced
Z25 Gear Replaced
Radiator Cap Replaced
Tip Over Sensor - Bypassed / re-located
Airbox Drain - Relocated
Engine Map - Updated
Sump Clean - Heard they can be full of gasket sealant from shoddy builds in Factory

Also is the list for an 1130 exactly the same or were some of the issues solved prior to them being launched?

Ongoing Maintenance.

3k - Basic - Oil & Filter Service (Self)
6k - Major Service - +Tappets / Alternator Bushes* / Air Filter / Spark Plugs / Core Plugs (£500 - £600)
9k - Basic - As 3k (Self)
12k Major - as 6k plus cam chain (£600 - £700)

* I had seen something about alternator not making it to 10k, so maybe this would need to be done at the same time as 6k service to make things simple and keep the bike reliable.

Unless their is something really weird with the Benelli I would be happy to do the 3k services / year oil change myself, have done this on all my other bikes, so maybe every 2-3 years I would have to either ride to Bennets, or put it in a van and take it up there - a bit of a PITA, but not a big deal.

Engenia · Nov 22, 2015

MadMan said:
Pre-purchase check list:

Clutch Basket Replaced

Z25 Gear Replaced

Radiator Cap Replaced

Tip Over Sensor - Bypassed / re-located

Airbox Drain - Relocated

Engine Map - Updated

Sump Clean - Heard they can be full of gasket sealant from shoddy builds in Factory

A 2003 clutch basket is not a great issue. It just needs inspection to determine it's state. I have a perfectly good 2003 clutch that's done over 60,000 km. (Can't remember how much exactly, but it was a lot)
Z25 gear / alternator drive shaft + Belville washer is a MUST
Radiator caps originally supplied had a seal that was too small and leaked, but in 2005 when I bought mine, the problem was known and rectified by the dealer before delivery. I've not heard of one still on a Tornado, anywhere.
TOS - DON'T bypass it! Re-mount it.
Airbox drain redirection is a must, but easily done.
Map? Mine runs the 6033 map originally supplied, and has done for 110,000 km. I don't see why it needs updating, unless you want to improve it, but it doesn't sound like you are a tinkerer.
Every bike with a sump should be inspected here at the first service, not only a Benelli

BTW.

Cam chain replacement is at a 16,000 mile interval, not 12,000.
I would clean and re-oil the air filter every service, unless you have a DNA filter which can be stretched to every second service.
Alternator bushes? I've only replaced mine once in 110,000 kms, and they weren't stuffed, just ragged. Others may have a different experience, but that is mine.
Plugs will last for at least 20,000 kms. If you have Iridium plugs installed, forget about them. They will last at least 100,000 kms.
Core plugs are changed only when they leak. If you know you have steel ones, keep a couple of spare brass ones in your bike jacket pocket (I did). If they start leaking you'll notice it by the need to constantly top up the radiator. They usually fail gracefully.
If you have the OEM coil sticks, keep a spare set on the shelf (like the car owners do with similar coil sticks). Again, they tend to die gracefully, and only one at a time, so you can limp home on two cylinders. (It's happened to me twice)

klinkerstinker · Nov 22, 2015

Or sleep at night and buy a Aprilia RSV Mille. :rolling::rolling:Christ I'll get lynched now. :doh:

I've had 3 and I'd buy another, if I had enough for an almost new example.

Look at me on Saturday....:jig:

MadMan · Nov 23, 2015

Thank Engenia,

That is all great info and probably all I need to know.

My plan would involve taking it to Bennets and letting them do any of the essential mods that have not been done, and probably sort the smaller items such as fitting new coil sticks and core plugs whilst it is in the dealers with all the bodywork off.
I am not keen on doing roadside repairs / carrying spares - If I wanted to do that I would buy an old British bike or new BMW :doh:

A remap is something I would likely go for, on many bikes I have had dyno setups done and been very pleased with the results, and also most of my bikes have had suspension upgrades - although the Tornado looks to be very well equipped in this department so would just go for a fork / shock service.

Newbie with insane idea

MadMan

Fastfishes

ianh

DivingDog

MadMan

ianh

MadMan

ianh

Engenia

MadMan

tomr10

MadMan

TOTDY

MadMan

TOTDY

Fastfishes

MadMan

Engenia

klinkerstinker

MadMan

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