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Redbaron57

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I was asked to help with a TNT899 for someone living nearby. I was surprised to find it is a bike I discussed with a previous owner years ago in a town hundreds of kilometres away. He was having trouble with a flat spot in the mid range. The new owner was frustrated that the bike would only run properly at small throttle openings. I agreed to be involved, since I am retired and mysteries interest me more than the jobs I should be doing. The ECU was bricked years ago when communication was lost during a remap, due to low battery voltage. The Benelli distributor of the day re-flashed the ECU. The bike ran again but would not run properly. A dyno tune improved things but the fuel map change was quite illogical, disappearing off the top of the chart in the mid range, yet it had a flat spot and the gas analyser still showed it was lean. We installed my ECU in the bike and loaded a standard TNT899 map. It ran pretty well, so it was clear that re-flashed ECU was not right. It was sent to The Netherlands in the hope of a fixed price repair. It returned with a note saying there was no fault. I cleaned the ECU terminals, replaced the spark plugs and gained a lot of improvement but was mystified for a while by inconsistent cranky behaviour. To cut a long story short, TuneECU data logs revealed that the atmospheric pressure values from the ECU are implausible. The two charts attached show the story. The atmospheric pressure should be pretty constant like on the first chart showing 1006 hPa. The second chart shows the Atmospheric Pressure values way too low and varying with throttle changes. The lean running is caused by the ECU trying to adjust for super-thin air when the air is actually normal. It appears the ECU firmware is corrupt and this was not detected by the previous tests. This is not my field but I imagine there is a misalignment in the BIN file, resulting in the wrong reference. Now to find a way to re-flash the ECU properly.
Image
 
#2 ·
Oh ,the joys of incorrect sensors working, if you give the management the wrong information. Well they make adjustments that do not work. It may not be the ECU at fault ,only the information it has been fed. A burnt TPS will affect throttle response, and running, even giving sticking throttles, iffy Stepper motor and the thing wont start or run like a dog.
Yes , I agree a full dyno set up is the way to go, smooth out the fuelling and a bike will run better, but only if the control provided by other information providers is sound.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Redbaron57 said:
It seems unlikely that the pressure sensor is faulty,
Click to expand...
From the diagram you shared I tried to understand why air pressure is implausible

Image

Now with the engine running it tries to create a vacuum in the air box and the sensor is connected to the air box.
"Vacuum" is a kind of synonym for high altitude.
I'd think only a comparison with "good" data from same type of bike allows for taking conclusions.
Would you have a second diagram from a Benelli TRE running correctly?
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
michael.w.holzer said:
Would you have a second diagram from a Benelli TRE running correctly?
Click to expand...
Yes. I posted it on December 23, along with the chart showing the fault. It is the top chart, showing atmospheric pressure 1006hPa. The Atmospheric Pressure Sensor is inside the ECU (see picture lower centre). Atmospheric Pressure is not affected by the engine. At my altitude of 60m above sea level, the short duration atmospheric pressure should be constant, as shown on that first chart. That was recorded on the same bike, which was running properly with a different ECU, on the same day as the second (implausible) chart was logged. This demonstrates the fault is within the ECU. That ECU worked normally until it was bricked. The advice I received from a tuner experienced in ECU programming is that when the ECU was re-flashed, the BIN file might have been written starting on the wrong line. It is therefore not referencing Atmospheric Pressure but some other value, which varies with throttle and makes the bike impossible to tune properly.

Image
 
#6 ·
Redbaron57 said:
when the ECU was re-flashed, the BIN file might have been written starting on the wrong line. It is therefore not referencing Atmospheric Pressure but some other value, which varies with throttle and makes the bike impossible to tune properly.
Click to expand...
Thanks for explaining, now I start to understand your reasoning :)
 
#7 ·
Redbaron57 said:
I was asked to help with a TNT899 for someone living nearby. I was surprised to find it is a bike I discussed with a previous owner years ago in a town hundreds of kilometres away. He was having trouble with a flat spot in the mid range. The new owner was frustrated that the bike would only run properly at small throttle openings. I agreed to be involved, since I am retired and mysteries interest me more than the jobs I should be doing. The ECU was bricked years ago when communication was lost during a remap, due to low battery voltage. The Benelli distributor of the day re-flashed the ECU. The bike ran again but would not run properly. A dyno tune improved things but the fuel map change was quite illogical, disappearing off the top of the chart in the mid range, yet it had a flat spot and the gas analyser still showed it was lean. We installed my ECU in the bike and loaded a standard TNT899 map. It ran pretty well, so it was clear that re-flashed ECU was not right. It was sent to The Netherlands in the hope of a fixed price repair. It returned with a note saying there was no fault. I cleaned the ECU terminals, replaced the spark plugs and gained a lot of improvement but was mystified for a while by inconsistent cranky behaviour. To cut a long story short, TuneECU data logs revealed that the atmospheric pressure values from the ECU are implausible. The two charts attached show the story. The atmospheric pressure should be pretty constant like on the first chart showing 1006 hPa. The second chart shows the Atmospheric Pressure values way too low and varying with throttle changes. The lean running is caused by the ECU trying to adjust for super-thin air when the air is actually normal. It appears the ECU firmware is corrupt and this was not detected by the previous tests. This is not my field but I imagine there is a misalignment in the BIN file, resulting in the wrong reference. Now to find a way to re-flash the ECU properly. View attachment 40090
Click to expand...
This is very interesting How are you able to make this data log ? how can you properly reflash the ecu ? cheers Sammy
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
millgolfhouse said:
How are you able to make this data log ? how can you properly reflash the ecu ?
Click to expand...
TuneECU - select the sensors required and hit Rec while connected to ECU. I cannot reflash the ECU. That is my problem. I presume an Axone or Texa tool can do it but the owner is reluctant to spend money sending it overseas for that purpose after he has done it once already with no success. If someone succeeds in getting HUD ECU Hacker to talk to the Walbro ECU that would probably do it.
 
#14 ·
Sounds like it is my case as well; hope not (lol). With new spark plugs, on idle, it works almost perfectly. The crazy stuff starts, once the acceleration is touched and revs go over 2k.

Never thought, actually didn't know, about LOG option in TuneECU. Will have to give it a try.
 
#15 ·
TPS is the most likely cause. simple to replace, less expensive options available. You just need Tune Ecu to reset the new one. Zero to 100% calibration on the new one.
Do not overthink the problem, try the easiest thing first, if that does not cure it, go further. you at least know it is not the TPS. Delphi 5510562-1281 BMW fitment about £20
 
#16 ·
freeatlast said:
TPS is the most likely cause [...]
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip, freeatlast.
Actually I have replaced my old TPS (still original from 2004) and installed a new one from Variohm.
With the old one the values were bouncing up and down with about 15%. Variohm signal is steady; seemed perfect.
At the same time I have also changed the map to version 402, but...
As always, I should have done one change at a time, not all together. At least troubleshooting would have been easier. (lol)
Will revert with some updates once I have time and will to stay in a cold garage. :eek:
 
#17 ·
Only a thought, for £20 ish you revert to the original fitment and see if that gives you the similar readings to the Variohm.
New ones do work well ,but do suffer with use.
Best map I have found is the 101AU map for a de restricted TNT from 2006/9 ,it runs very well in the Trek with the flaps and cat and exhaust butterfly taken out as well.
 
#18 ·
freeatlast said:
[...] revert to the original fitment and see if that gives you the similar readings [...]
Click to expand...
I have already a new one. Will get the readings first of course and then compare. Thanks for the tip.

freeatlast said:
[...] Best map I have found is the 101AU [...]
Click to expand...
That was the original map of my 2004 TNT. With 402 it seemed to run better. In any case, it is worth to return to original to see the difference.

Will revert with more info...
 
#20 ·
At the end of the day, the issue is due to the Denso 12-holes injectors. The mixture is simply to lean. Engine runs great at idle, but it will choke and misfire if accelerated above 2k rpms.

My mechanic is busy for some time and I still have a few things to finish on the motorcycle. However, would like to have the engine run more or less good, before I get it to a Dyno.

Anyone has a map to share for a TNT 1130 with 12-hole injectors?
 
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