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samnu

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

just wanted to discuss about my starting problem that appeared today. I changed the battery and added a ground cable and while doing this pinched the breather hose. Benelli started ok but died soon due to pinched hose and this is where it all started.

Got it to run after all but it ran poorly like on 2-cylinders. After a while it went away. Then after that really difficult to get it running. Then I got it runnin as used to and went to sleep.

This morning It welded a started solenoid curcuit and kept cranking with the power off. I replaced the solenoid and now its really difficult to crank.

did I foul plugs, coils or the sprag clutch? Starter engages but turns around 2 times and stalls.

link to the video where it sound funny and then normal again:

here is also video link to show the starting:
 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
Update, after deliberately trying to start and charging the battery in between. Tried like 10 times. Suddennly nelli woke up from the dead and everything is like nothing happened.

Airlock, airbubbles etc from the pinched hose case, I dont know. But now she starts immediately.
 
#3 ·
That battery sounds gutless only just spinning it over , then struggling.
To much battery drain gives you a weak spark.
When you switch the bike on, do the clocks and temp gauge sweep, and return to zero.
Also does the dash flash oil, or alternate Bat/ oil or Bat ? If you are seeing Bat you have a battery low problem.
Have you up graded the power cables to the starter.
To check your theory, leave it a couple of days , no charger top up and try again, if it will not start, you know where to go to improve things.
Could be the starter solenoid, not making a good battery feed to the starter.
Last thing you want is , go for a ride out , stop for a coffee and the bloody bike wont start.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Thanks for input. I did upgrade ground wire to thicker one and positive was already doubled so cables ok. Dash also like usual and not showing bat.

I think that the starter solenoid was going bad and drained my batteries completely. I had 2 batteries. Then it finally welded itself and it kept cranking with power off and I had to pull battery cable off.

I got new solenoid from local shop and charged my batteries meanwhile and have no idea why the first start was so difficult with charged battery and new solenoid. Will try again tomorrow fingers crossed everything is still working. Todays ride was success.
 
#6 ·
Just another thought, have you checked the Z25 drive gear.
Maybe the shaft has twisted, they do with the 1130 engines and go tight on the start drive. That extra resistance sounds very similar to your video.
ps , your battery upgrade should be more than enough, mine cranks easy, and I simply spin it a couple of cranks , pause,
spin it again and she fires to life.
The bitch did embarrass me a few years back after a heavy traffic run and stalled, she would not restart until cooled down. Hot Z25 gone tight .
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
freeatlast said:
Just another thought, have you checked the Z25 drive gear.
Maybe the shaft has twisted, they do with the 1130 engines and go tight on the start drive. That extra resistance sounds very similar to your video.
ps , your battery upgrade should be more than enough, mine cranks easy, and I simply spin it a couple of cranks , pause,
spin it again and she fires to life.
The bitch did embarrass me a few years back after a heavy traffic run and stalled, she would not restart until cooled down. Hot Z25 gone tight .
Click to expand...
i have infact not checked the z25, but I have zero hot start issues. This was the only starting issue I have ever had. When hot the bike fires up on half crank with ease. Thus I have not been worried about z25. Maybe i should?
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
freeatlast said:
That battery sounds gutless only just spinning it over , then struggling.
To much battery drain gives you a weak spark.
When you switch the bike on, do the clocks and temp gauge sweep, and return to zero.
Also does the dash flash oil, or alternate Bat/ oil or Bat ? If you are seeing Bat you have a battery low problem.
Have you up graded the power cables to the starter.
To check your theory, leave it a couple of days , no charger top up and try again, if it will not start, you know where to go to improve things.
Could be the starter solenoid, not making a good battery feed to the starter.
Last thing you want is , go for a ride out , stop for a coffee and the bloody bike wont start.
Click to expand...
You were right. today when turned on flashed BAT on the screen and the battery was infact not full so the battery is bad or draining atleast
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
RobShed said:
A good hot start is dandy but the alt drive shaft could still be bending due to neg clearance on the Z25 gear and clutch intermediate ring gear.
Click to expand...
ok sounds like another project, cheking the z25. I visited track today and nelli almost did not start. When it finally did start after charging and starting the battery in between, rest of the day was flawless. Here is hot start video:
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
I just can't help to think this super hot start. I will go and buy one more cheap ytx-14 battery from local store and if it does not solve the "BAT" on dash and starting issue, I will have to diassemble the z25.
 
#14 ·
Just check your current battery with a test meter, you need 12.8 to 13.2v static .
Clip the meter on to the battery and crank the bike, if it drops below 11 v under load , it is the battery.
good battery for a price is a Fulbat FTZ14s gel 1000 battery, UKParts Direct.com Westbury Wilts £49.98 delivered.
 
Discussion starter · #15 · (Edited)
I got it to start more easily with a new battery but it drained with one start from 14 to 12.7 but things are maybe a bit more clear now.

Image


here is few videos where you can maybe hear that the idle drops little by little and then climbs back to being pretty high. Even once sputtered like a misfire. ---> so I have weak spark, I think this misfire speaks for itself???

so coils or plugs before anything more major perhaps! I can start with the plugs, no idea when those are previously replaced. If that does not help then coils. And since no history of when changed last time, does not hurt to even do both.

what do you think?



 
#16 ·
Battery dropping a bit , from brand new and just start ups is acceptable, 5 miles down the road and alternator topping up , she will be back up to full.
Yes could be good to get the plugs out , see what you have got and may be a new set. While you are in there, have a good look at the stepper, a clean up is always good, they do foul up. that could be your fluctuation. Coils are either good or breakdown, Pull the injectors out and see what you have in there. Could be the original crescent 4 hole (ex peugeot/citreon) 1.4 petrol jobs, may be upgraded to 4 hole square pattern (slightly finer spray delivery).
12 hole superfine injectors work well in the 1130. There are more gains in smooth delivery than the 900 engine as Erroll will confirm.

Look on the bright side , she starts and runs, fine tuning now.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
freeatlast said:
Battery dropping a bit , from brand new and just start ups is acceptable, 5 miles down the road and alternator topping up , she will be back up to full.
Yes could be good to get the plugs out , see what you have got and may be a new set. While you are in there, have a good look at the stepper, a clean up is always good, they do foul up. that could be your fluctuation. Coils are either good or breakdown, Pull the injectors out and see what you have in there. Could be the original crescent 4 hole (ex peugeot/citreon) 1.4 petrol jobs, may be upgraded to 4 hole square pattern (slightly finer spray delivery).
12 hole superfine injectors work well in the 1130. There are more gains in smooth delivery than the 900 engine as Erroll will confirm.

Look on the bright side , she starts and runs, fine tuning now.
Click to expand...
she runs which is good, but starting has become difficult when cold so I have to investigate why. Because before the friday incident of pressed breather hose she started super easily cold and hot, so something happened when se ran out of fuel and I tried many times in a row to start her.

Atleast she welded the starter solenoid but there must be something else in addition to that. Its possible that the z25 bent in this circus but the season is starting so I'll first try basics before larger fixes. Otherwise I'll ride the spring only with my suzuki

I'll start on the plugs!
 
#18 ·
Cold start , deffo look at the stepper. good spray with carb cleaner and a wipe usually does it, check if you have the white plunger or the green anodised metal Sonceboz one, they usually dont stick.
Solenoid starter switches do fail , common problem, Yamaha is a common replacement ,under a tenner.
May be sort out the simple things and then worry if you have mechanicals.
Best sort out is a tank of E5 through her , that will clean it out, My son races and we buy 105 octane fuel, couple of litres of that you can eat you dinner out of the exhaust. super clean.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
freeatlast said:
Cold start , deffo look at the stepper. good spray with carb cleaner and a wipe usually does it, check if you have the white plunger or the green anodised metal Sonceboz one, they usually dont stick.
Solenoid starter switches do fail , common problem, Yamaha is a common replacement ,under a tenner.
May be sort out the simple things and then worry if you have mechanicals.
Best sort out is a tank of E5 through her , that will clean it out, My son races and we buy 105 octane fuel, couple of litres of that you can eat you dinner out of the exhaust. super clean.
Click to expand...
thanks for the tips, I have white stepper. I looked at it while cleaning and sealing the airbox and filter. Did not touch it then, maybe should have.
 
#20 ·
That is probably your problem, be careful. Bit of a fiddle to get it out, don,t twist it. Check it moves freely up in the seating to seal of the air tubes. you might find it has swollen and sticking in the bore. Gentle emery to get it to clear works . read Errols really useful pages on the subject.
We are a friendly lot on this forum always ready to share what we have learnt, in the joys of owning a Benelli.
 
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samnu
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