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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All.
I have decided to change the mechanical coolant pump to electrical on my Tornado Tre 1130.
Checking out what Maniac Motors have to offer I think buying local may be a better option. From photos on their website it looks like a Davies Craig EPB 15 or 23 L/M pump married to the 8002 controller.
On Davies Craig website it is not the recommended controller. They also have a 25 L/M (but looks dimensionally larger)
Anyone had experience with Maniac’s kit?
Thank you for any feedback.
 

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Very good choice.
It's the only way to move heat from the engine to the radiator fast enough at idle and low revs, to control overheating. The mechanical pump barely moves 5 lpm in those conditions, while the EBP15 does 3x that. As far as I know Alex uses the EBP15 in his kit, and uses a controller designed by one of his mates.
Stingerwolf has described his experience with his 1130 Tornado here.
I've been using an EBP40 for some time on my Tornado and still developing a controller for it. I'm going a little bit deeper by keeping track of the radiator temperature, and using this as a pump speed control input, as well as engine temperature. The sensors I'm using are also much faster, responding in a second to temperature changes, as opposed to 15. Alex replaced the OEM sensor with the fastest he could find, but its still too slow to respond to the radiator temperature fall when accelerating from standstill to 100 kph. That fall is enough to close the thermostat, something I'm attempting to remedy.
I'm also adding a bypass circuit to circulate coolant through the engine during warmup. Most cars do this to limit micro-boiling. Benelli use a thermostat with a bleed hole to keep some movement, but it is minimal, probably only there to reduce load on the water pump blades.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Very good choice.
It's the only way to move heat from the engine to the radiator fast enough at idle and low revs, to control overheating. The mechanical pump barely moves 5 lpm in those conditions, while the EBP15 does 3x that. As far as I know Alex uses the EBP15 in his kit, and uses a controller designed by one of his mates.
Stingerwolf has described his experience with his 1130 Tornado here.
I've been using an EBP40 for some time on my Tornado and still developing a controller for it. I'm going a little bit deeper by keeping track of the radiator temperature, and using this as a pump speed control input, as well as engine temperature. The sensors I'm using are also much faster, responding in a second to temperature changes, as opposed to 15. Alex replaced the OEM sensor with the fastest he could find, but its still too slow to respond to the radiator temperature fall when accelerating from standstill to 100 kph. That fall is enough to close the thermostat, something I'm attempting to remedy.
I'm also adding a bypass circuit to circulate coolant through the engine during warmup. Most cars do this to limit micro-boiling. Benelli use a thermostat with a bleed hole to keep some movement, but it is minimal, probably only there to reduce load on the water pump blades.
Thank you for quick response
I know you are a advocate of the electrical pump. With good reason.
I should have looked at Davies Craig FAQ sheet, the way I read it the EWP controller can be used with the EPB. (No. 3)on list. This seems perfect as it also has what I think is Pulse Width Modulation.
Attachment without the kind permission of Davies Craig, but I am sure they won’t mind, shows 10 second on 30 seconds off when at startup.
Stingerwolf seems have an older model controller the (8001) but I do not know how much difference there is to the (8002).
As for Maniac the EPB15 has been replaced with the 23.
Font Parallel Number Screenshot Symmetry
Rectangle Font Slope Material property Parallel

I want to use the EPB25 as this looks to be the same dimensional size as the EPB40 I take it will fit under the lower fairing without problem.
 

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Davies Craig advocate for the removal of the thermostat and use their controller to simulate it by stopping the pump. I tried that and wasn't impressed. The warmup was slow & erratic. So I went back to thermostat control and added a (ThermoBob) bypass. My pump doesn't stop.
I now control the bypass flow with a solenoid valve to ensure there is 100% flow through the radiator when the thermostat is fully open.

DC also appear to use voltage speed control, beginning at 6. My controller always uses the full voltage available, but pulse width modulates it at 25 kHz. The lowest speed isn't quite as low as that achievable when the supply is analogue, but it is lower than what 6V produces.

One thing I discovered about these pumps is that if the flow stops, the supply must be taken to zero for a second or so to reset it's internal controller. This is an undocumented feature. My controller gets around it by monitoring the current drawn. If it drops to zero the controller resets the pump.
Alex is now aware of this "feature" but hasn't seen it himself because he doesn't run the EBP23 near its lowest flow rate. The EBP40 is a different beast & needs to be reigned in a little harder.

All of the EBP range of pumps fit in the space taken up by the mechanical pump, once it is removed.

When I first started playing with booster pumps I put an EBP15 in parallel with the mechanical pump. This didn't have the desired result so I removed it. What I should have done is put it in series and run it only above the temperature at which the thermostat was fully open. That would have worked, if I could have plumbed it in series. I didn't try it, but it would be the simplest system only requiring a thermo-switch to control it. There's no substitute for flow rate though, so in this case bigger is better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Davies Craig advocate for the removal of the thermostat and use their controller to simulate it by stopping the pump. I tried that and wasn't impressed. The warmup was slow & erratic. So I went back to thermostat control and added a (ThermoBob) bypass. My pump doesn't stop.
I now control the bypass flow with a solenoid valve to ensure there is 100% flow through the radiator when the thermostat is fully open.

DC also appear to use voltage speed control, beginning at 6. My controller always uses the full voltage available, but pulse width modulates it at 25 kHz. The lowest speed isn't quite as low as that achievable when the supply is analogue, but it is lower than what 6V produces.

One thing I discovered about these pumps is that if the flow stops, the supply must be taken to zero for a second or so to reset it's internal controller. This is an undocumented feature. My controller gets around it by monitoring the current drawn. If it drops to zero the controller resets the pump.
Alex is now aware of this "feature" but hasn't seen it himself because he doesn't run the EBP23 near its lowest flow rate. The EBP40 is a different beast & needs to be reigned in a little harder.

All of the EBP range of pumps fit in the space taken up by the mechanical pump, once it is removed.

When I first started playing with booster pumps I put an EBP15 in parallel with the mechanical pump. This didn't have the desired result so I removed it. What I should have done is put it in series and run it only above the temperature at which the thermostat was fully open. That would have worked, if I could have plumbed it in series. I didn't try it, but it would be the simplest system only requiring a thermo-switch to control it. There's no substitute for flow rate though, so in this case bigger is better.
This may as well be an open letter to you Engenia as there seems to be very few Tornado owners with electrical pumps.
Perhaps as I suppose most Tornados are in the cooler climates of Europe,Or the gods of traffic management smile on them so overheating Tornados is not a problem.
I have bought a EPB25 with a 8002 controller, it should arrive next week.
Let me explain why. Foremost I do not have the knowledge or resources to follow along with what you are doing. K.I.S.S principal is more in keeping with me.
I did intend to run the bike without a thermostat but you are saying it is slow and erratic.
Davies Craig also recommend that if you leave the thermostat in to drill two 3mm holes in the thermostat. I doubt that is Benelli specific, but maybe drill a couple of holes in increasing sizes and see.
Thanks to your research I will order a compatible thermostat and experiment.
The kit has a 1/4 npt sensor, any chance you know the thread of the original?
And the part number of the hoses and joiners?
As for compromises if the bike takes longer to warm up before a run that is okay, better that than willing the needle not to move at a set of lights. It is most distracting.
Many thanks for reply.
 

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Davies Craig also recommend that if you leave the thermostat in to drill two 3mm holes in the thermostat. I doubt that is Benelli specific, but maybe drill a couple of holes in increasing sizes and see.
There is already a bleed hole in the oem t/stat. Perhaps a millimetre dia.
Do a search for "Thermo-Bob". Worth a read.
The kit has a 1/4 npt sensor, any chance you know the thread of the original?
1/4 BSP I think, but you need to check.
And the part number of the hoses and joiners?
Unfortunately I didn't write down the part numbers. I just wandered into an auto parts shop and browsed.
You will need a couple of reducers though. I made mine, but later found a stainless steel reducer at Reece, used in a/c applications. Not cheap but they don't need any extra effort.
18.5 OD to 28 OD. Marked '28x15' 'AS3688' 'WM22197'
Musical instrument Wood Tool Gas Metal

The lip might be problematic, but it can probably be cut off.
Motor vehicle Automotive design Font Auto part Metal

This pic was taken before I added a "Thermo-Bob" bypass. That later got solenoid control.
There are pics of StingerWolf's plumbing on the forum. He did it slightly differently.
Auto part Cable Composite material Nickel Gas

The oem pump cover. Not pretty, but it works, and it's hidden.
 
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