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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi.

I do not know if anyone else has had this problem, where temperature gauge reads in the red but the bike is mechanical OK. The cure apparently is replacement set of clocks!!

My replacements are due in from Benelli UK shortly.

But when you have only had the bike 6 days (at the time) I thought as I am sure anyone else would that my new steed was about to do the way of impeding doom!!
 

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Clocks

Nick, I've been fooling around with these clocks for a while now & have found that the earlier versions do have problems displaying temperature properly. The gauge can get offset & read too high. However, the red warning light in the tacho never comes on (& the display doesn't show "temp"), so you can rest assured that the temperature is ok.
Tuneboy also shows that the temperature is ok.

Eventually the gauge will reset itself correctly.

The version D gauge is fine, although it does reset it's clock & trip meter on occasions when starting. The solution to this problem is proving to be a little tricky. I thought I had it licked, but I was pipped at the post.
 

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I've had the same problem on my 02 Aprilia, there is seems to be a failed start drawing power from the instruments, thus causing the reset. Most annoying. Do you have a fix ?

ciao
Derek
 

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Clocks UPS

Er, yes, kind of.

Problem I'm having is my UPS has to supply the full power while the clocks shut down. Tough for a tiny battery. Works fine on the bench, but has trouble in the real world.

I'm still looking into it, but I think I'm going to have to take control of the starter button as well. When the starter button is pressed, my UPS will shut down the clocks, then start the engine 1/2 second later. When the button is released, the UPS will release the starter motor immediately. (It's getting complicated)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Nick, I've been fooling around with these clocks for a while now & have found that the earlier versions do have problems displaying temperature properly. The gauge can get offset & read too high. However, the red warning light in the tacho never comes on (& the display doesn't show "temp"), so you can rest assured that the temperature is ok.
Tuneboy also shows that the temperature is ok.

Eventually the gauge will reset itself correctly.

The version D gauge is fine, although it does reset it's clock & trip meter on occasions when starting. The solution to this problem is proving to be a little tricky. I thought I had it licked, but I was pipped at the post.
Thanks for the information. Do I still need to replace the clocks (the trip is now starting to set itself) or will it reset? Should I be asking Benelli UK for the version D gauge?

Please advise.

Regards

NickPTre900
 

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There's a fix I tried on the Falco. Basically you add an extra capacitor to the circuit where the power comes into the unit. Apparently it's just after a diode so that power cannot be drained back into the bikes main wiring. The idea is that the capacitor charges up when the power is turned on. It acts as a mini battery as such so that if the starter decides to draw more power and deprive the clocks, it can provide enough power for a short period of time to stop the clocks from resetting.

It doesn't seem to have worked on mine (which probably means I did something wrong) but others claim it has fixed their Aprilia clock resets. I'd be interested to know if this sounds similar to what you are experiencing on the Benelli. If so it could be a simple matter of modding the power input lines on the clocks :)

To those who have not encountered clock resetting it sounds rather like a trival "don't bother with it" type of problem. But on the Aprilai it resets the trip, clock and rev indicator. It doesn't effect the bike as such. But having it happen every couple of weeks becomes very annoying.

ciao
Derek
<Not a electronics expert>
 

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clocks

Nick,
definitely get them replaced with the latest revision. Rev D is heaps better than A, and later revisions may be better still.

Derek,
I tried beefing up the storage caps in the unit first, but to no avail. It just draws too much current for too long (1/2 - 1 sec), as it shuts down. The cap needs to be a Farad or more, to provide the energy required, and caps of that size can't provide the 200mA needed (without any lamps on).
The only circuit that gets close to working, uses a NiMh battery, voltage sensing, power control & charging. I'm not sure why this works on the bench, but not for any extended period on the bike. I haven't had time to find out.
I'm going to persist because, as you say, it's annoying.
 

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Hi Engenia,

As I said I'm not an expert. But I'm wondering if something like a rechargable battery (like those used in a torch) with a small recharging circuit added to the dash would do the trick. The idea being that it takes over whilst the starters drain everything from the main looms. I have no idea how much current these sorts of batteries can supply so I don't know if that would work.

ciao
Derek
 

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Derek,
that's pretty much what I've been working on. The challenge is to make the thing small enough to fit easily on the bike, preferably just in front of the dash. The need for at least 7.5V, means 5 cells, adding to the bulk. Fitting it inside the dash is virtually impossible.

I'm close, but haven't quite cracked it, yet.
 

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The need for at least 7.5V, means 5 cells, adding to the bulk. Fitting it inside the dash is virtually impossible.
Surely a link out to a 9V PP3 would be the best option. Enough wire before the popper studs and you could hide that anywhere.

Also, does it need to be rechargeable ? How much current do the clocks take during each starting blip ?

Aarron
 

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The need for at least 7.5V, means 5 cells, adding to the bulk. Fitting it inside the dash is virtually impossible.
Surely a link out to a 9V PP3 would be the best option. Enough wire before the popper studs and you could hide that anywhere.

Also, does it need to be rechargeable ? How much current do the clocks take during each starting blip ?

Aarron
 

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Aaron, doesn't need to be rechargable, if you don't mind replacing batteries. The thought of NOT recharging never occured to me!

You need a couple of steering diodes on the BAT line, and a way of detecting the voltage, so that the SWITCH line can be switched off. I've not tried to run it with the SWITCH line still connected. Perhaps that would work, but the real problem is the couple hundred milliamps required to run it. With the SWITCH line off, that drops to about 100 mA. I've been struggling with that amount of current, so more becomes even more difficult. A 9V cell wouldn't last long at that rate - maybe 100 starts? Changing a battery every month doesn't appeal to me.

Of course, I've been trying to put everything in a small box in front of the dash. Initially I was aiming to put it inside the dash. A separate larger remote battery, may indeed be the way to go. A small 12V gel cell could be charged by the alternator, along with the main battery. That would ease the design a little. It's just a case of finding a tiny gel cell. The smallest I can find measures 100x60x25. You might be able to mount it in the tail?
 

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Battery Seperation

Why not rig into the starter solinoid switch line and just use that as a trigger, rather than the fancy voltage trigger. That should cut down the size of the box you are trying to hide in the nose cone.

You may also find the connector for the starter solinoid can be found quite easily (typically a standary 2 pin molex connector if Benelli use the same starter as Ducati/Guzzi/Laverda et al)

Aarron
 

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Good idea Aarron. I didn't consider this initially, as I was trying to put the whole thing inside the dash. The development trail advanced from there.

The voltage sensor is tiny - a standard microprocessor reset controller (MAX6457) - and costs very little in $'s or board real-estate.

The problem has been the time it takes for the dash to switch to it's sleep state, & the high current required until it does this. Using the starter switch as an input would gain a couple of tenths of seconds - probably not enough, but worth a try.

Going to a bigger UPS battery & using the alternator to charge it direct, would probably do the job best, but the calcs would need to be done to confirm this. It's a pity that the smallest 12V gel cell measures 96x25x65. At 0.8Ah, it's way more than is needed.
The starter switch would switch off the dash, the UPS battery would take over supply from the main battery, and the alternator would charge both, through steering diodes ( the regulator voltage would need to be raised to compensate for the diode drop).
Might work, but still not simple.

Maybe changing over to a 12V NiCd as the main battery would be a better idea. The cranking amps would then be heaps better than the lead acid, and the voltage would remain high. It's then a matter of modifying the charging system.

Or just a more powerful main battery - tough ask considering the volume available.
 

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If the starter button diverts through your box surely you can decide when the bike starts drawing amps. IE When your UPS battery circuit is in place and ready you can kick in the starter solinoid. No timing issues involved.

Alternatively what about going at it the other way, disconnect the starter button when the voltage drops too low. Then you dont need a battery or charging circuit at all. However I dont know if this means the bike would stop before doing a couple of cycles. Typically a battery drops to 8 Amp when you hit the starter on any bike.

Aarron
 

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If the starter button diverts through your box surely you can decide when the bike starts drawing amps. IE When your UPS battery circuit is in place and ready you can kick in the starter solinoid. No timing issues involved.
Yep, thought of that. I'm sure it would work, but it adds a little more complexity. It might be a little disconcerting to press the starter, & the starter not spin up straight away. It also means that the UPS will take over every start. At present it only kicks in when it needs to.
disconnect the starter button when the voltage drops too low.
I suspect that the bike wouldn't start if I did this.

I think I'll look at a slightly bigger battery for now. If that comes to a dead end, then I'll try controlling the starter.
 

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On my ST3 the starter button doesnt control the starter solinoid at all, the ECU does.

You press the button once and let go. The ECU then turns the lights off, starts the fuel pump, and engages the starter solinoid letting the engine turn over and over until it is runnig, or hits a time limit.

I am not suggesting we should go to that level, but just to say that there is a presedent for the starter not starting the bike instantaniously (although in practice it nearly is).

Presumably if you are letting the clocks go to sleep the dashboard will dissapear as some sort of indication that you are in starting mode. What happens when they come back on, do they do the full sweep again ? Only I see this occur on acceleration sometimes and it is what screws up my Temperature guage. ie the Temp sweeps back to the current value, not to 0, then adds on the same value again sticking it in the red.

Aarron
 

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if you are letting the clocks go to sleep the dashboard will dissapear as some sort of indication that you are in starting mode. What happens when they come back on, do they do the full sweep again ?
Certainly do. Which is why I didn't want to switch it off unless I had to.

Only I see this occur on acceleration sometimes and it is what screws up my Temperature guage. ie the Temp sweeps back to the current value, not to 0, then adds on the same value again sticking it in the red.
Aaron, you must have a dodgy power connection to the dash, for it to switch off under acceleration. Check pins 19 (Batt) & 20 (Main sw) and all the grounds - 17, 16, 15 & 12.
The temp gauge should always go back to 0, then up to the current value. My Rev A gauge behaves likes yours. The reading can not be trusted. If yours is a Rev A, it should have been replaced under warranty. You can tell it's an 'A' by the way the mode switch works (or by dismantling it). An 'A' will change mode while the switch is depressed, a 'D' will only change when the switch is released. (I have no idea what a 'B' or 'C' do.)
 

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I tried to get stuff done under warrenty but my dealer didnt want to know (Benelli were in crisis at the time). The lower fairing flaked paint too. My dealer stopped doing benelli's and then my warrenty ran out.

I probably should have winged harder, but I enjoyed riding the bike too much.:p

Sound like I have a Rev A though as it definately changed mode on the press not the release. I will hunt for the bad connection. The Temp guage reading rubbish is fine as you have the flashing text backup if it does get to hot, but not having a trip on a bike with a tiny tank range is a bit of an arse.

Aarron
 

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solution

1. Upgraded starter motor from benelli.
2. New yuasa YT12B-BS battery
3. double battery wirings.

So far I have had no problem with resetting clock.

W: Pekka
 
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