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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I bought a complete kit from Maniac Motors that contains the master & slave cylinder, braided line, bolts, washers etc.
Hydraulischer Kupplungs Kit TNT, Maniac Motors

The kit is designed for the TnT but I noticed that the master cylinder doesn't have a mirror mount and that the clutch switch supplied uses a different connector to that on the existing clutch lever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I'm in the process of fitting the kit but have run into a problem with the slave cylinder.

The nub that the clutch rod passes through doesn't fit the recess in the engine casings. It's too wide. The original ferrule that sits in the opening measures 9.99 - 10.00mm. The new slave cylinder measures 10.06mm. I've emailed Alex at Maniac Motors and am waiting for a reply. Worst case I can use some fine wet & dry to fix the problem but for the price of the kit I shouldn't have to in my opinion.

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Slave Cylinder Assembly Showing Clutch Rod Nub

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Measuring Clutch Rod Nub

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Measuring Original Clutch Rod Ferrule
 

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Blimey Mike, you're right about the price. It's eye watering. But apart from the minor hiccup you've discovered it looks like a good quality product.

I can't tell from the photos whether the coating is anodised or powder coat. Although I'd guess it's anodised because powder coating is usually thicker than anodising so is less suitable for surfaces where accuracy of fit is required. Either way, it's difficult to precisely control the coating thickness to all areas of an irregular shaped item, so a little bit of variation can be expected. Hard anodising is typically between 30 - 100 microns thick (0.03 - 0.10mm). So an anodised coating could easily account for the 0.06mm (or greater) oversize on a diameter where you have coating on both sides.

I don't know how much control Alex has over the manufacturing process, but your feedback might be useful for future quality control. Mounting faces are normally left un-coated where dimensional accuracy is required. Perhaps that's a suggestion that Alex could refer to his fabricator.

I assume from the little flag under your avatar that you're in Australia, so rather than get Alex (in Germany) to fix it, I reckon the most practical and quickest solution for you would be to sort it yourself as you proposed. Just scrape away some of the coating from the little spigot. It doesn't have to look perfect and a little bit of radial imperfection can be tolerated in that application. But if you're really fussy about precision, take it to someone who can centre it on a lathe face plate and shave a wee bit off the coating. I could do that for you if you're anywhere near Hobart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I received a reply from Alex stating that there is some variation in the diameter of the crankcase recess depending on the year made. He suggested either heating the engine casing (hot air) to fit or removing some material from the nub on the slave cylinder.

I think I'll remove the anodizing on the nub to fit. At least this way I'll know I can remove it easily if I need to.

I'm in Melbourne so not that far - feel free to drop by if you are in town. I do have a lathe but the motor burnt out recently. Swarf managed to get into the windings. I'm still waiting on the replacement.
 

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Blimey Mike, you're right about the price. It's eye watering. But apart from the minor hiccup you've discovered it looks like a good quality product.

I can't tell from the photos whether the coating is anodised or powder coat. Although I'd guess it's anodised because powder coating is usually thicker than anodising so is less suitable for surfaces where accuracy of fit is required. Either way, it's difficult to precisely control the coating thickness to all areas of an irregular shaped item, so a little bit of variation can be expected. Hard anodising is typically between 30 - 100 microns thick (0.03 - 0.10mm). So an anodised coating could easily account for the 0.06mm (or greater) oversize on a diameter where you have coating on both sides.

I don't know how much control Alex has over the manufacturing process, but your feedback might be useful for future quality control. Mounting faces are normally left un-coated where dimensional accuracy is required. Perhaps that's a suggestion that Alex could refer to his fabricator.

I assume from the little flag under your avatar that you're in Australia, so rather than get Alex (in Germany) to fix it, I reckon the most practical and quickest solution for you would be to sort it yourself as you proposed. Just scrape away some of the coating from the little spigot. It doesn't have to look perfect and a little bit of radial imperfection can be tolerated in that application. But if you're really fussy about precision, take it to someone who can centre it on a lathe face plate and shave a wee bit off the coating. I could do that for you if you're anywhere near Hobart.
Anodizing is a process that is in the outer surface of the aluminium and shouldn't add to the overall size. It is also non conductive, so if you check with an ohm-meter you should be able to tell. The thickness that you mention Sprocket, is the depth that the anodizing treatment has gone. My son does anodizing as part of his job. Nigel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·

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Anodizing is a process that is in the outer surface of the aluminium and shouldn't add to the overall size.
From what I've read about anodising, you're half right. About half of the total thickness of anodising is within the surface and half added above the original surface.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I've run into another problem and I'm beginning to regret ever buying the conversion kit :(

One of the bolt holes didn't line up after I fitted the slave cylinder. It's out by almost 2mm.

More emails to Maniac Motors....

36800
 

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hmm not good. That will be the dodgy Benelli machining not the new parts! As he runs for cover!
 

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I've run into another problem and I'm beginning to regret ever buying the conversion kit :(

One of the bolt holes didn't line up after I fitted the slave cylinder. It's out by almost 2mm.

More emails to Maniac Motors....

View attachment 36800
I've run into another problem and I'm beginning to regret ever buying the conversion kit :(

One of the bolt holes didn't line up after I fitted the slave cylinder. It's out by almost 2mm.

More emails to Maniac Motors....

View attachment 36800
Are yousure that is the right conversion kit ?
It does not look anything like mine, it fits perfectly , all the mountings line up and its a better colour . DSCF1575.JPG DSCF1576.JPG DSCF1575.JPG DSCF1575.JPG DSCF1576.JPG
 

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Anodizing is a conversion process that penetrates the outer layer of the metal that's true but it does cause a small increase in the surface height as well. Typically it's between .0002”-.0003” for regular anodizing. Hard coat anodizing can be a little more at around .002”.

http://www.omwcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Understanding-and-Specifying-Anodizing-1.pdf
OH! That would be why my grip was tight to refit the bars after anodizing then. 😂
Actually my son tells me that during the preparation process, the etching stage reduces the thickness that is usually restored whilst anodizing. The variation of size wont show up on a digital caliper though.
 

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OH! That would be why my grip was tight to refit the bars after anodizing then. 😂
Actually my son tells me that during the preparation process, the etching stage reduces the thickness that is usually restored whilst anodizing.
Back in the dim dark ages I worked in a plating shop. I made a front panel for my brother's amp by anodizing and selective inking. It still looks great 40 years later.
As I remember it, anodizing is simply electroplating without the plating. You first strip off the oxide layer, by etching, to reveal the inner porous aluminium structure. Then you drop it into an ink bath to flood the porous structure - if you aim to colour it. Then you seal the surface electrically - but this time, you carefully build the surface up in a structured way. The etching step does remove material, and sealing it adds material - oxygen - to make aluminium oxide. Just how long you perform each step determines how much the material shrinks or grows. A minute or two either way makes a difference, especially for close fitting parts.
This is one of the reasons close fitting parts are NOT anodised. Alodine is preferred in those cases - nasty stuff, but does the trick.
The variation of size wont show up on a digital caliper though.
It will with a micrometer, if skilled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
The ongoing saga......

Alex suggested that I drill out the mounting holes to 7.5mm. I did and the slave cylinder now fitted easily.

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The side of the engine showing the clutch push rod and mounting points.

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So I fitted the master cylinder, line and switch and filled and bled the system. Everything was ready to go.

I then started up the bike and did a short run around the driveway and found that there was a lot of drag and I couldn't get the bike into neutral.

I emailed Alex and he sent me some instructions for adjusting the clutch.
  • Take off the clutch cover and loosen the adjuster locknut.
  • Wind the adjuster in until it just starts to tighten.
  • Wind it out 3.5 - 4 turns and lock it in place.
  • Reduce the fluid level in the master cylinder to the minimum level (Alex didn't explain how this helped)

I did the above and checked the lift on the clutch. Alex said that I should be getting between 2 - 2.5mm but I was only getting just under 2mm. Doing the above had improved the lift but not by much.

So I bled the system again and put everything back together and did another short run. The drag is reduced but I still can't put the bike into neutral.

More emails :(

On a positive note the clutch lever is now very light.
 

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I thought it was just a 1/4 turn back out. But could be different when using the hydraulic setup.
 

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For what it's worth I changed out slave from Maniac to the one from Eovtech on my TNT 1130 conversion and found it to be better. Easier pull and I was able to find neutral at a standstill. Could not do that with the Maniac one. The whole conversion was made even better with the addition of a Brembo RCS 19 master. That last addition made everything nearly perfect.
 
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