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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Reading this week's MCN today.
There was an article of a recent Crown Court Case, where a biker was hammered with 6pts, £100 fine and £250 costs for doing 85mph! The extra was because he was leading a group, and penalised for the rear-most rider who was doing 103mph to catch up.
nov1909-speeding-penalty-for-leading-rideout
This is now a stated case in law and other convictions can be brought about because of it.
A crazy, crazy law that makes a driver responsible for the actions of another in a seperate vehicle. How can this be!!!
 

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This surely is a misinterpretation of the law by the Magistrate? It really does need to be challenged, and I hope that somebody takes the case up on his behalf, because this is now a precedent which plays right into the hands of certain CPO's. They must be rubbing their hands with glee...:rolleyes:

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Ian
 

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Oooops, just re-read it, and it was at Crown Court, so it was a judge, not a magistrate. Not good; carries more weight, and more difficult to overturn:doh:

A dark day for motorcyclists

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Ian
 

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If I were him I would be appealing this.. I the human rights court if necessary!
 

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If I were him I would be appealing this.. I the human rights court if necessary!
I think the BMF or somesuch should take it up on his behalf, and of all motorcyclists. Even if the front rider sticks to the speed limits, riders at the back will get strung out, and may decide to break the limit themselves, in order to catch up. Our ride back from Silverstone springs to mind.
Will the front rider be prosecuted then? Under this ruling, how can he not?
This is WRONG...:doh:

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Ian
 

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I would happily contribute a few quid to his appeal fund ;)
 

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God, my mate is up for a 99 on 70 road, case is in Inverness on monday or tuesday. I seriously hope he is OK and he drives for work. Even the police said he was not riding dangerously, just a tad too quick. When will someone start using common sense when penalising in the court. I know tat if you are caught speeding ten fair enough, but given circumstances like open dual carriageway good weather etc. The good old days the police gave a bo**ocking and you got on your way with a lighter wallet, your tail between your legs and a healthy dose of respect for the police.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If I were him I would be appealing this.. I the human rights court if necessary!
The reason this was heard in Crown Court is that he did indeed appeal the Magistrates Court verdict. It cost him another £2500 in llegal fees taking it that far.
THIS IS A BIG RULING, AS CROWN COURT RULINGS MAKE A PRESIDENCE, AND THEREFORE FUTURE LAW :mad:
:bawl: implications on group rides are massive!
 

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T900 TRE is the plate!
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Look out if you are quietly blatting along on your own and get caugt up by a small group of speeders. you might even get roped into their offence just by being on the same piece of tarmac.

Can vouch for the Silverstone ride, catch up was causing me to go 15-20 mph faster to keep up with Ian's blistering 45mph pace all down the A303:)

Dave
 

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Look out if you are quietly blatting along on your own and get caugt up by a small group of speeders. you might even get roped into their offence just by being on the same piece of tarmac.

Can vouch for the Silverstone ride, catch up was causing me to go 15-20 mph faster to keep up with Ian's blistering 45mph pace all down the A303:)

Dave
I know, I couldn't find 2nd gear on that p#xy Yamaha!:rolling:
(did I go as fast as that?:confused: )

Cheers:D
Ian
 

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God, my mate is up for a 99 on 70 road, case is in Inverness on monday or tuesday. I seriously hope he is OK and he drives for work. Even the police said he was not riding dangerously, just a tad too quick. When will someone start using common sense when penalising in the court. I know tat if you are caught speeding ten fair enough, but given circumstances like open dual carriageway good weather etc. The good old days the police gave a bo**ocking and you got on your way with a lighter wallet, your tail between your legs and a healthy dose of respect for the police.
I agree with you fella common sense has gone out the window! I got pulled over the other day for overtaking in a 30 mph zone! the car I over took was doing about 15 mph the occupants of the car slowed down to look at second hand cars on a forecourt completely oblivious as to what was behind them, me! and about 5 other vehicles, so I decided to bimble past perfectly safely not speeding just a couple of cars coming towards me in the distance no probs so I thought! except one of the cars was a BMW pig carrier, he eyeballed me good and proper fine I'd done nothing wrong, the next thing glanced in my mirror and here he comes all guns f*cking blazing doing about f*cking 90 in a 30 zone talk about over the top! anyway like a good citizen I pull in take my helmet off and the first thing the pig say's to me is"DO I NEED TO SAY ANYTHNIG" and my reply is "well I wish you would have I done anything wrong officer"
Officer - do you think it's wise to overtake in a 30 mph zone?
Kenny " If it's safe to do so yes!"
Officer- well I guesstimated you must have been speeding to overtake that vehicle!
kenny " did you also guesstimate the speed of the vehicle I overtook"
Officer - No! but I've got to be seen to be doing things with regards to manovers like that!
Kenny - Is it illegal to overtake in a 30 mph zone then officer?
Officer - no as long as your within the speed limit!
Officer - where are you going?
Kenny - to get petrol!
Officer - looks like we could have a bit of rain today:
Kenny - erm well maybe, let's hope not!:confused:
Officer - I'm going to give you a warning this time just take your time and enjoy your ride today.
F*uck me all that took 45 f*ucking minutes and for what!
45 minutes spent wasted on me when some poor sod was being ROBBED,BEATEN,BUGGERED AND F*UKING MURDERED AND NOT A PIG IN SIGHT! THE TWATS!
Disclaimer: Just got home from watching Wales crush Argentina into the mud,have Been drinking heavily no offense meant to my little pink four legged friends Ilove em all like I love my sheep :doh: :doh:
Rant over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Can vouch for the Silverstone ride, catch up was causing me to go 15-20 mph faster to keep up with Ian's blistering 45mph pace all down the A303:)
hmm can I mention the return run on Sat. At the back we were seeing 3 figures to catch up, guess the guys in the front would've been in the sh*t :rolling:
 

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Precedent in Law

The idea of Group Responsibility for a crime (and spending is considered a crime) is not new. In Criminal Law you can be prosecuted for crimes againt the person or property if you are a member of a group of people who commit an offence.
For example if a group of you attack someone but one of you lands the fatal blow, you can all be done for murder / manslaugther

This ruling does create a difficult problem for the police. They have to prove you were riding as a group, not as individuals who happen to be on the same road! If they can't prove that then they are going to struggle.

Who is to say a convoy of cars sat at 85 Mph were not travelling at the speed of the Car that has just caught them up at 100mph. If the police prosecute the whole convoy for 100 mph there would be an outrage. So it should be with bikes.

They must prove you are a group!

There are already laws to stop people racing, riding dangerously (which can be proved for a group of riders) and generally being a nuesence to other raod users. It is already possible to prosecute a group for riding at excessive speed, though it must be considered that they are all doing the same speed.

This case is unquie and sets a dangerous precedent, but is not actually that far away from the present laws.

It means theat if you are in a group you ride on unless you are spefically stopped, and if you are stopped you were riding by yourself and had no idea who the other guys were !
 
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