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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,

I wanted to start up a discussion on the future! Specifically the future of what seems to be the main reason people choose not to buy a Benelli...reliability.

Rather than getting bogged down in past experiences of how your 2004/05/06/07 xyz bike is off the road or has been trouble free (there’s already plenty of those posts on here), can we focus on the bikes rolling off the production line right now as well as the bikes we will hopefully be buying in the next few years?

Here are some questions along that line of thought that have been on my mind:
  1. When can we expect the Chinese financial investment into Benelli start to bear the fruit of increased reliability?

  2. Are they’re already examples of this new more reliable bike? For example the new 899 TnT.

  3. Can we expect the reliability of newly manufactured but not redesigned models to be better than their counterparts with an earlier manufacture date?

    For example a 2008 manufactured TnT café racer compared to it’s 2006 twin brother.

  4. If newly manufactured bikes are built to a higher quality, where can we draw that “newly manufactured date” line in the sand? 2007, 2008 or maybe even bikes that haven’t been build yet...2009?

I want to say again that my idea for this thread is to hear people’s thoughts and ideas (educated or otherwise). There’s not going to be right or wrong answers.

Feel free to pose new questions if the ones above aren’t broad enough or miss a point you feel is relevant.

Cheers

Greg
 

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And where do you think you're going to get the stats on all this? Are you hoping the "chinese" are reading this?

I have an 06 CR with almost 6000 miles on it without any problems.
I am very happy with it.
Majority of the problems were with the earlier 900's.
They are having "less" problems with the 1130 era bikes but still have some way to go. Not only that Benelli, although a bit slow, are taking care of warranty issues,and known problems.
Like any other manufacturer they will tell you that they are working on their QC. Real question is how much and when? Repair it when it breaks or before it breaks?

Answers to q.1 It has already started
q2. Sure buy one and let us know if it breaks.
q3. It has already happened. known bad parts are not put into the newer bikes.
q4. never there is always room for improvement.

Bottom line is we all hope for improvements and reliability. Even Ductai's have their problems. If they did not they would not be Italian. (Unfortunately)

Paul
 

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Are they’re already examples of this new more reliable bike? For example the new 899 TnT.
Certainly. Mine. A 2003 Tornado Tre.
"What, really? :rolling:", I hear you say.
Yes really.
Have a look below, at how far Nell's traveled.

The problems you hear about on this forum, are generally due to the known mods (since 2005) not having been done. 8mm intermediate gear, alternator drive lock washer & dash upgrade. For absolute piece of mind, change the alternator shaft & Z25 gear to the latest spec. - as found in the 1130.

There's no reason I know of, for a 2003 Tornado not to be as reliable as a Honda, and maybe more so (remember the VF750 ? It took Honda many years, and serious $$'s to get over that one.)

One other thing - maintenance. The manual specifically says to check the cam chain at (I think) 5,000 km intervals. DO IT, and you'll feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
 

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Hey all,

I wanted to start up a discussion on the future! Specifically the future of what seems to be the main reason people choose not to buy a Benelli...reliability.
I think its so much the reliability problem as more a question of lack of progressive product development of current models for example where is the next Tre ? The one we ride has been rattling round mostly unchange since 2004 the biggest revision being a rebore to 1130.The big four change theirs every year admittedly they in my eyes are great but dull bikes but they sell thousands of em !!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
And where do you think you're going to get the stats on all this?
G'day Paul. I'm not sure what you mean by this. The thread isn't meant to be about stats, just thoughts and opinions. Studied stats years ago and since then have done my Victoria Bitter fueled best to wipe it from all recorded memory.

Only two more slabs to go and I'll have succeeded :D

Cheers

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think its so much the reliability problem as more a question of lack of progressive product development of current models for example where is the next Tre? The one we ride has been rattling round mostly unchange since 2004 the biggest revision being a rebore to 1130.The big four change theirs every year admittedly they in my eyes are great but dull bikes but they sell thousands of em !!!
Hey mate...product development is definitely a major factor and it goes hand in hand with improving reliability. But I think the current percieved lack of reliablity is the bigger contributer to why non benelli owners don't buy a benelli (non benelli owners being a much bigger market segment than benelli owners).

I think lack of product development is more likely to be the major reason why owners of benelli's (most people here) aren't in a hurry to buy a new benelli .

As a new bike purchaser, it's so easy to write off a bike and not even give it a chance to win your heart when you're spending your hard earned. Most bikers would operate like that and not even put the benelli on their list of possible bikes.

Luckily it's made it onto mine!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
The problems you hear about on this forum, are generally due to the known mods (since 2005) not having been done. 8mm intermediate gear, alternator drive lock washer & dash upgrade. For absolute piece of mind, change the alternator shaft & Z25 gear to the latest spec. - as found in the 1130.
Fair point, cept it seems your definition of reliable differs a wee bit from mine. ;) If I'm forced to do a handful of mods to make a bike reliable, then its not a reliable bike, no matter how many km's I then clock up on it.

Of course those sorts of mods are fine and dandy for enthusiasts to make. I'm sure you enjoy working on your bike and that's great. But if the only people to buy benelli's are the enthusiasts, well, the factory doors will shut for much longer next time. No one reading this wants that!!!!

Cheers :lager:
 

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... Of course those sorts of mods are fine and dandy for enthusiasts to make....
These aren't enthusiasts mods. :doh: The engine will eventually break if they're not done. These are the things that the dealers should be doing as part of the pre-delivery service. In my case, the dealer DID do them (more power to A1:ele: ). In many cases, they didn't happen, and you've seen the results.:bawl:

Unfortunately, it's been left up to the owners to chase up, whereas, it should be up to the factory / importer / dealer.

I don't understand dealers & owners alike, complaining about the perceived unreliability of the marque (& low resale value), when it's so easy to fix. It's not the bike that's unreliable, but the network of dealers, importers & the factory itself.

Maybe my definition of "reliable" is different. My old VF750 was very reliable. I put 50,000 km on it, after the thing had done at least double that before I bought it. But when it was new, no-one would have said it was a reliable bike. No-one says it now! (They're wrong.) Honda lost heaps of "cred" over it (and had to re-design it into the VFR750, at a gigantic cost). It's one of their worst disasters. But, with the mods done, the VF engine is bullet proof.

ROBFM said:
your not having a sexual relationship with your Nelli I hope
:D Mate, I ride her every day:D
 

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its italian

for ultimate reliability buy jap, I could tell you heaps about dukes, mv's, laverda's, Aprilia's, moto guzzi's, moto morini's bimota etc with drama's. Benelli has the various tornado's which are very diffrent motors, a 1130 tornado isnt just a stroked 900, the tre-K, Tre-K amazonas, CR, Tnt Sport and evo, Titanium, no longer any base 1130 tnt being made as the 2 new 899 tnt's replace it, 3 off road bikes, (mx, enduro and motard) naked twin, Due 756, 600cc inline four, V4 or V5 tornado replacement ( I must email Giancarlo Galasso at the factory and tell him to call it the Typhoon,). So there is no lack of model range, although the Due and dirt bikes are yet to enter production. What does MV make, 2 models!! and Ducati now about 4 or 5!!.
riding a old 02/03/04 tornado motor and a new 07/08 1130 tnt you can hear how much more refined the motors have become ( apparently from 2nd hand reports).

Also in a article from Alan Cathcart interviwing Marconi, he states that the lamda probe in the CR, tnt /1130 tornado is their to allow owners to change exhaust and the ecu will alter the map automatically to compensate! yet we have every tnt owner altering maps??

most jap bikes have what, 30 plus years building engines, Benelli have only taken their production in house since early 06, has to set up their facilities and then institute their own QA/QC systems etc and build up new stock or parts AFTER using up the old MM produced parts stock. so give them some time, they only build 3000 bikes per year, so R&D is MUCH slower than anything outa japan. also a lot of bikes and engine in bikes after the chinese buyout was old stock from the old engine producer, Moto Morini. whose QA/QC was pretty shit, ask any early MM corsaro owner!.
. My next bike will be a Nelli.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
These aren't enthusiasts mods. :doh: The engine will eventually break if they're not done.
hey mate. Yeah, I understoood that. What I meant when I said its fine and dandy for enthusiasts to do those mods, is that an enthusiast will not mind doing those mods because to them its a small price to pay for the character of their benelli. Where as a non enthusiast thinks its unacceptable and takes their wallet elsewhere.

Even in the benelli oz mag there's a references galore about problems. "The TnT had all sorts of quality control issues making this a flawed motorcycle too." Surely we don't have to debate about benelli having a recent history of being unreliable. I've had my therapy and have come to terms with it. We're all reading this forum cause we are ok with that and either own a benelli or want to, myself included :clap:

This angle of disussion is why I didn't think people saying their 2005 model xzy has been running fine for eleventy billion miles and all I've done is kick the tyres once and flick off a coupla bugs, so it's reliable, so there. :rolling:

What's not been discussed in much detail (as far as I can tell) is what everyone thinks about the future, especially regarding reliability. It was touched on in the benelli oz mag and I was really interested to see what people think.

Cheers ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
for ultimate reliability buy jap, I could tell you heaps about dukes, mv's, laverda's, Aprilia's, moto guzzi's, moto morini's bimota etc with drama's. Benelli has the various tornado's which are very diffrent motors, a 1130 tornado isnt just a stroked 900, the tre-K, Tre-K amazonas, CR, Tnt Sport and evo, Titanium, no longer any base 1130 tnt being made as the 2 new 899 tnt's replace it, 3 off road bikes, (mx, enduro and motard) naked twin, Due 756, 600cc inline four, V4 or V5 torado replacement ( I must email Giancarlo Galasso at the factory and tell him to call it the Typhoon,). So there is no lack of model range, although the Due and dirt bikes are yet to enter production. What does MV make, 2 models!! and Ducati now about 4 or 5!!.

riding a old 02/03/04 tornado motor and a new 07/08 1130 tnt you can hear how much more refined the motors have become ( apparently from 2nd hand reports).

Also in a article from Alan Cathcart interviwing Marconi, he states that the lamda probe in the CR, tnt /1130 tornado is their to allow owners to change exhaust and the ecu will alter the map automatically to compensate! yet we have every tnt owner altering maps??

most jap bikes have what, 30 plus years building engines, Benelli have only taken their production in house since early 06, has to set up their facilities and then institure their own QA/QC systems etc and build up new stock or parts AFTER using up the old MM produced parts stock. so give them some time, they only build 3000 bikes per year, so R&D is MUCH slower than anything outa japan. also a lot of bikes and engine in bikes after the chinese buyout was old stock from the old engine producer, Moto Morini. whose QA/QC was pretty shit, ask any early MM corsaro owner!.
. My next bike will be a Nelli.
Love your work mate! That's what I'm talkin about. Lots of good info in there :bow:

Especially interested in more info on this if anyone has any first hand experience...
riding a old 02/03/04 tornado motor and a new 07/08 1130 tnt you can hear how much more refined the motors have become ( apparently from 2nd hand reports)
Cheers
 

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old and new

That what I've read in mag's and online, from www.raptorsandrockets.com
on the web, the old Benelli dealer in West Oz commented to me that the 07 tnt's and tornado were much quieter than my 10/04 RS ( he went on a demo ride when SCPS took over and relaunched the new Benelli range, he commented the new motors were quieter and smoother, unfortunately I've never had a chance to ride another Benelli besides my own, the new west oz Benelli dealer has 3 new nellis (CR Sport Evo and Tre-K on the showroom and has no plans to demo any of them!! :bawl: ), also the AMCN article on the CR by Alan Cathcart said that the new 1130's have had LOTS of work done to quieten the motors, the 1130 tornado has these advancements too but that runs a dry exposed clutch so its still loud and rattly, also the tornado's run a ramp type clutch (both a wet(900) and dry type (1130), slipper )whereas the 1130 tnts run a slipper version like the aprilia Milles vacuum assisted design.
I'll scan the AMCN mag article and post it on the weekend.
Marconi worked at aprilia after bimota went under in the 99/2000 period (he did the Futura). I do have a email from Giancarla Galasso, (Benelli PR and head test rider) detailing the diffrences between a 900 and 1130 tornado engine, its not just a matter if dropping in a 1130 crank and cylinder's ( I was hoping it was !! :bawl: :rolleyes: )

Making the Benelli International mag was a real pleasure, i was really keen on #2 with a TnT focus but with full time work and 2 uni units part time and a young child, trying for # 2 and working away in the NW shelf i dont have the time, BUT it people send me heaps of article etc I'll gladly assemble issue #2, its upto you lot.

Ps the old dealers Mechanic agreed my bikes engine was more raw and unrefined, he said he prefered it that way :)
 

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Errol,The parts for my customers 900 RS have just turned up after a 2 month wait.Why is the intermediate gear on the new alternator shaft 7mm? Any idea.
Zebo:(
 

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Errol,The parts for my customers 900 RS have just turned up after a 2 month wait.Why is the intermediate gear on the new alternator shaft 7mm? Any idea.
Zebo:(
The Z25 gear IS 7mm, while the intermediate gear it meshes with, is 8mm. 2 possible reasons. The extra 1mm allows for some mis-alignment, or alternator drive shaft float. The 8mm gear is stronger as well. I've seen a picture of a failed 7mm intermediate gear. It's not pretty.

The shaft & Z25 gear both have alignment marks. When you install it, make sure that they are aligned, or the whole purpose of using this new shaft will be defeated.
 

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To progress in the market Bennelli need to realise that a vast majority of new Bennelli owners will be, old, Bennelli owners. If the company are replacing items under warranty then surely the mods are important enough to be changed on bikes out of warranty. Whenever bikers ask me about the bike I give the usual 'great bike but not without its problems' The best advertisement is word of mouth and not slick advertising. I love my bike now but not sure i would buy another unless the company admits past mistakes and recitfy known faults. Talking BS probably so forgive me :rolleyes:
 

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I own an '06 TnT Sport and now know everyone in the service center on a first name basis. Even though they are great guys, I'd rather spend my time elsewhere ;)

So far I've had in the first year and a half of ownership:
- Crankcase oil leaks (3 goes to fix)
- faulty oil filter (leaking)
- Starter motor dying
- Dud spark plug
- Power valve/airbox solenoid sticking
- Dash going haywire (replaced)
- Front end coming loose (think it is starting to do it again)
- lots of fueling/idling issues (all solved now thank God)
- EFI warning light coming on (still pending - issue with no3 coil)

AND, I've had a good run compared to some other TnT owners I know.

The question I ask myself is - can I afford this bike once the warranty runs out?

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
To progress in the market Bennelli need to realise that a vast majority of new Bennelli owners will be, old, Bennelli owners. If the company are replacing items under warranty then surely the mods are important enough to be changed on bikes out of warranty. Whenever bikers ask me about the bike I give the usual 'great bike but not without its problems' The best advertisement is word of mouth and not slick advertising. I love my bike now but not sure i would buy another unless the company admits past mistakes and recitfy known faults. Talking BS probably so forgive me :rolleyes:
I own an '06 TnT Sport and now know everyone in the service center on a first name basis. Even though they are great guys, I'd rather spend my time elsewhere ;)

So far I've had in the first year and a half of ownership:
- Crankcase oil leaks (3 goes to fix)
- faulty oil filter (leaking)
- Starter motor dying
- Dud spark plug
- Power valve/airbox solenoid sticking
- Dash going haywire (replaced)
- Front end coming loose (think it is starting to do it again)
- lots of fueling/idling issues (all solved now thank God)
- EFI warning light coming on (still pending - issue with no3 coil)

AND, I've had a good run compared to some other TnT owners I know.

The question I ask myself is - can I afford this bike once the warranty runs out?

Mike
Hey Mike & Steve,

What do you both think Benelli would have to do, or show you, or prove to you, before you'd to be comfortable buying another benelli?

I was just remembering what I think ducati started saying a few years back (I think with the 999). It was part of their marketing material saying they new bikes were more reliable and had extended service intervals. They started their marketing machine on a mission to counter two of the main perceptions of ducati that stopped sales. They are unreliable and expensive to maintain.

Wonder if benelli should start doing something like that? Of course they need to back it up!

Cheers
 

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Sounds like a great marketing plan to me. :clap:

I think that is well worth mentioning to the Benelli brass at Rusty's the weekend after Angus's bash
 
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