[***pierre**]

Hi peeps, your thoughts and suggestions on this. Out on a ride today, 15 miles in, I hear a strange knocking noise from the left side of the engine. Pulled over at once and killed the engine. Now when I attempt to start, something makes a spinning/whining noise but doesn't want to fire up! Any ideas or suggestions on areas to look at please?

Thanks

Pierre

 

[***pierre**]

Follow up, battery on charge, seems to make all the normal noises when I turn it on, still making a whining spinney noise but no engine engagement.... Nothing throwing up on tunecu either...

 

[GBo]

Sounds like maybe z25 gear/shaft. if you remove the alternator and check that the shaft cannot be turned too easily, or remove clutch cover and check at that end. Or it could be a sprag clutch issue but I wouldn’t have thought there would be any noise.

 

[***pierre**]

Sounds like maybe z25 gear/shaft. if you remove the alternator and check that the shaft cannot be turned too easily, or remove clutch cover and check at that end. Or it could be a sprag clutch issue but I wouldn’t have thought there would be any noise.

Thanks Gbo, I'm going to have a look tomorrow, looks like alternator looks straightforward to remove, see what I find, hopefully not lots of broken bits!

Pierre

 

[***pierre**]

Me and my big gob!!!...

 

[GBo]

If the gear on the rear of the clutch has survived and you can retrieve the parts it will just be the z25 shaft and gear plus locking bolt and Belleville washer that needs replaced.

 

[***pierre**]

If the gear on the rear of the clutch has survived and you can retrieve the parts it will just be the z25 shaft and gear plus locking bolt and Belleville washer that needs replaced.

The gear looks OK although it's completely free from the shaft, looks like a fun few hours coming up!

Pierre

 

[Rick67]

Oh dear ..
definitely a few hours cleaning up there ..
I’ve a very good used sprag clutch and used updated z25 gear with shaft if required . Only taken of my bike as my crank has an issue .

 

[***pierre**]

How do you know if the sprag clutch has had it?

 

[Rick67]

How do you know if the sprag clutch has had it?

That you’ll only know for sure when your cranking the bike over at start up .. it’ll make all sorts of bad noises slipping and catching as it tries to catch the z25 for a start .

 

[***pierre**]

Terrific! More fun and games!

 

[GBo]

The gear I meant is the one fixed to the clutch basket. But you will have to remove the clutch anyway to fit the new z25. As the shaft and gear are normally fitted as a pair.

 

[***pierre**]

Stange question coming up, has anyone had a new z25 bolt sheer? just having a quick look at the parts from Rick67 and the one currently in the bike (in bits) looks like a uprated one with belleville washer?

Pierre

 

[GBo]

Don’t think the new type m10 bolt with Belleville washer normally shears they can come loose though.The main problem is the shaft shears as yours has, the shaft is under heavy load during start up.

 

[***pierre**]

Don’t think the new type m10 bolt with Belleville washer normally shears they can come loose though.The main problem is the shaft shears as yours has, the shaft is under heavy load during start up.

Ah, so the one currenly in there was with a belleville washer, so would it be fair to say that its been upgraded in the past? when I took the retaining bolt off from the alternator side, i could do that with just my fingers and there was no evidence of threadlock compound on it at all! fair to say bolts worked loose, shaft moving while engine was running and banging about which caused to shear?

Pierre

 

[Rick67]

Ah, so the one currenly in there was with a belleville washer, so would it be fair to say that its been upgraded in the past? when I took the retaining bolt off from the alternator side, i could do that with just my fingers and there was no evidence of threadlock compound on it at all! fair to say bolts worked loose, shaft moving while engine was running and banging about which caused to shear?

Pierre

I’d say they would all come loose without Loctite added . Weather it’s the updated shaft or the original version.
Even the new updated ones will work loose without it and that is probably why yours snapped as the shaft end migrates towards the clutch and the drive gear on the outside. The clutch starts to chew it up as well as putting pressure on the shaft. Possibly causing it to snap , twist , bend ect .

 

[***pierre**]

I’d say they would all come loose without Loctite added . Weather it’s the updated shaft or the original version.
Even the new updated ones will work loose without it and that is probably why yours snapped as the shaft end migrates towards the clutch and the drive gear on the outside. The clutch starts to chew it up as well as putting pressure on the shaft. Possibly causing it to snap , twist , bend ect .

Got it, make sense, looks like whoever did the job previous didnt do it very well!

Pierre

 

[GBo]

As Rick says I tend to use loctite on nearly everything hardly ever causes any problems and I have copious amounts of the stuff in different versions.

 

[***pierre**]

As Rick says I tend to use loctite on nearly everything hardly ever causes any problems and I have copious amounts of the stuff in different versions.

648 and 243 or do you recommend others/better?

 

[michael.w.holzer]

648 and 243 or do you recommend others/better?

Are you aware that workshop manual (downloadable on Engenia's Benelli Tornado Novocentro Tre) has the specifics for each screw?
i.e. Page 159: "Block the clutch bell unit with the specific instrument. Screw and tighten the nut with loctite. Worm drive: 80 N.M 8 Kgm Loctite: 648® "