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I've had a look at both the Tornado (p 204) and the RS (p210) workshop manuals and I can't see any reference to Loctite use with the M10 alternator drive shaft bolt. The TreK 1130 WS Manual specifies Arexons 56A48, which is an extremely strong thread locker. I assume similar to Loctite 263 or 271. Both you can unscrew with difficulty on a large bolt. If you used 648, expect to need heat to weaken the joint. 648 is a shaft lock. Use it on the clutch nut and you'll need a breaker bar to remove the nut. That is a big thread though, so a breaker bar won't damage anything provided that you use the clutch tool, and not the gearbox/rear brake. All bets are off if you try to use a breaker bar on the M10x1.25 alternator shaft bolt cold if 648 has been used.

I've never used a thread locker on that shaft. The 50 Nm torque setting together with the Bellville washer has always been sufficient for the half dozen or more shafts I've replaced. I've checked them at 5,000 and again at 10,000 km and I've never found one loose. Haven't bothered checking beyond that.

My advise would be to go no stronger than Loctite 263 on that bolt, if you use anything at all, and don't use Benelli's reduced head M10 bolt. A standard R8.8 M10x1.25 bolt will be stronger.

PS. I use a calibrated Warren & Brown 323500 Torque Wrench. When I set it to 50 Nm, I know it is correct.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I've had a look at both the Tornado (p 204) and the RS (p210) workshop manuals and I can't see any reference to Loctite use with the M10 alternator drive shaft bolt. The TreK 1130 WS Manual specifies Arexons 56A48, which is an extremely strong thread locker. I assume similar to Loctite 263 or 271. Both you can unscrew with difficulty on a large bolt. If you used 648, expect to need heat to weaken the joint. 648 is a shaft lock. Use it on the clutch nut and you'll need a breaker bar to remove the nut. That is a big thread though, so a breaker bar won't damage anything provided that you use the clutch tool, and not the gearbox/rear brake. All bets are off if you try to use a breaker bar on the M10x1.25 alternator shaft bolt cold if 648 has been used.

I've never used a thread locker on that shaft. The 50 Nm torque setting together with the Bellville washer has always been sufficient for the half dozen or more shafts I've replaced. I've checked them at 5,000 and again at 10,000 km and I've never found one loose. Haven't bothered checking beyond that.

My advise would be to go no stronger than Loctite 263 on that bolt, if you use anything at all, and don't use Benelli's reduced head M10 bolt. A standard R8.8 M10x1.25 bolt will be stronger.

PS. I use a calibrated Warren & Brown 323500 Torque Wrench. When I set it to 50 Nm, I know it is correct.
Thanks for that, I've looked at the workshop manuals and also laurences write up on the replacement z25, I asked the question to see what people had used and their success. My concern on the z25 bolt was that I could undo it by hand when I opened it up and don't really want it happening again, that was with the Belleville washer as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
OK friends,

Z25 bolt done, sheared in two but was still holding on the bearing sleeve!.

All cleaned, all rebuilt (without threadlock at the mo) new oil. For some reason neutral light isn't coming on, and when I attempted to start it sounded blooming awful as if somethings rubbing. Proper noisy grinding kinda sound. Killed it as quick as but now stumped, sprag clutch? Clutch not set properly? Any help great fully received!

Pierre
 

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Was the noise there during cranking, running or both and clutch in or out? when you put the z25 shaft bits together does it look complete? Probably easiest to pull clutch cover off and see if there is any obvious wrong in there. The neutral light switch is in the back lower of the gearbox section if something has got in there and wiped it out. I think I would pull the gearbox out and have a look(not as bad as it sounds) and you could give the sprag a once over while you are in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Noise was on cranking and I think on running (to be honest it sounded wrong so I killed it!) the neutral light was working before I changed the z25 so I'm confused about that! Sounds like a clutch cover off job, I reckon I haven't done something right with the clutch! Can I crank it over without the clutch plates in place? Let's see what tomorrow brings! Thanks for the help 😊
 

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i Would only do that if I could guarantee it wouldn’t fire. Maybe pull the fuel pump fuse or the injection fuse but they may have other feeds that would stop the starter motor, or pull off the coil sticks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Looks like it a a gearbox out job now, something really isn't right! Am I correct in thinking is a remove sprocket and chain, remove water pump (drain?) , put into Forth gear, remove the bolts and it pulls out? Have I missed anything?

Pierre
 

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Hmm… I’d re trace your steps as Glynn says to check you’ve installed the Z25 correctly first without any movement towards clutch or alternator.
when I replaced my gearbox mid covid I ran my bike briefly without the clutch fitted to check for other nasty noises … which they’re weren’t. So it is possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
The more I think about it, the more I think I've done something wrong! Z25 looks like it's in properly, no lateral movement, meshes with the clutch housing cleanly. I can spin the z25 one way with no noises and the other way won't move so sprag clutch looks like it's engaging. Really baffled as it wasn't making that noise when running so I'm guessing it's mechanic error somewhere...

Pierre
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Oki doki, one problem solved and another encountered!

Z25 fine, happy days.

Stripped clutch and rebuilt making headway, however...

In neutral all spins freely, however in any gear its locked. Clutch lever works and operates basket but still locks out... Haven't fired up just in case the gearbox is toast.. Help!!!

Pierre
 

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Oki doki, one problem solved and another encountered!

Z25 fine, happy days.

Stripped clutch and rebuilt making headway, however...

In neutral all spins freely, however in any gear its locked. Clutch lever works and operates basket but still locks out... Haven't fired up just in case the gearbox is toast.. Help!!!

Pierre
Ahh ok .. remove the clutch plates from the basket , only leave the clutch basket attached to the engine then try to engage all the gears by rotating the rear wheel off the floor ..
if you can’t select all the gears both up and down the box several times I’d say there’s an issue with something inside the box . Possibly a stray piece of Z25 at best..
I’m assuming you’ve taken the sump off to clear it and the oil strainer out ? :)
 

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Because of what you have said and the neutral light now not working. Something must have got into the gearbox. Pull it out and check it is quite easy to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Hi all!

Well, I have some progress, but still not sure all is good!

Stripped everything down again and rebuilt, no metal fragments in oil, nothing in sump, no nasty bits anywhere. Neutral light all good, alternator seems good and charging, gearbox fine, clutch looks fine, fires up, but seems to be making a whining noise, settles down after warming up but blipping the throttle makes it come back! I have a couple of videos of the sound but can't attach as it says they are too large! Can anyone help?

Thanks to the masses!
 

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Hmm … just listened to those two clips .
That noise most definitely isn’t normal.
sounds like something is too tight or is under pressure.
Did you remove the cam chain adjuster at all ?… If so I’d take it out reset it and bolt it back on then fit the spring and retaining bolt .
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
That was my thinking but I've triple checked everything. I don't believe I've touched the cam chain adjuster, what part is that? I believe I've only handled the alternator, z25, sump, clutch and clutch rod.

Genuinely baffled now!
 

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As Rick says doesn’t sound right. Sorry to say pull it apart again and look at bearings. Check everything is in the correct place by looking at the exploded parts list. Does the alternator spin free by hand? Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Sounds like it's going to be a more involved job now! I double checked everything again as per the exploded diagram so I'm really confused! My gut feeling is the clutch somehow but the noise is there when firing up and also in neutral.
 
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