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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I seem to have dismantled most of the Tornado Tre, I can't find the Tip Over switch, and there is no wiring / plug hanging free where I might have expected to find it - at the front of the airbox / behind ignition switch.

It looks like the TOS may have been bypassed, but the only wiring I can find which may be the wire + bypass plug is located on the right hand inner fairing shroud.
The plug doesn't look like anything I can see on Engenia's website,
The socket has a load of black wires going into the back and the plug has only 4 pins in it which have 2 wires connecting 2 pairs of ins together.
So can anyone confirm if this is what should be connected to a TOS, and can I fit an alternative Makers TOS to this socket if it is the right one, then presumable relocate it to the front of the airbox.
Thanks in advance, Guys.
 

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What you have found is the factory alarm socket with the bypass plug in it. I don't know exactly where the TOS is located on the standard Tornado, so I'll wait for someone else to tell you.
 

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The TOS is mounted on the front of the airbox on the Tornado, just behind the head tube.
The RS TOS looks like this:-
newTOS.jpg
The standard Tornado TOS looks like this once it's sponge mounted:-
TipOverSwitchSpongeMountRHS.jpg
As you can see, the plug is grey/neutral, and it's cable exits the loom just behind the head tube. It's quite short.

Post a pic of the airbox / area showing the loom on the inside right front of the frame and the head tube and I'll point to the connector in question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The TOS is mounted on the front of the airbox on the Tornado, just behind the head tube.
The RS TOS looks like this:-
View attachment 12003
The standard Tornado TOS looks like this once it's sponge mounted:-
View attachment 12004
As you can see, the plug is grey/neutral, and it's cable exits the loom just behind the head tube. It's quite short.

Post a pic of the airbox / area showing the loom on the inside right front of the frame and the head tube and I'll point to the connector in question.
Thanks Mike and Errol. Now that you have said that the cable is very short, Errol, I had another look in there and found a VERY short cable with a grey socket which I presume has a bypass plug fitted by the looks of it.
The cable was so short because it has been cable tied away.
So assuming this is a bypass plug fitted, are there any simple options re plugging in an alternative tip over switch which may be easily obtainable from another make / model, e.g. Triumph Daytona ?

Photos here -
 

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Yep, that grey plug on the left pic is for the TOS.
I don't know of an alternative TOS for the Tornado, but the RS TOS is the same as used on a Triumph 955i
If I was to change the TOS I'd go for a mercury switch type as found on Jap bikes (apparently), not a mechanical one like the RS / 955i. Changing the TOS type will involve some re-wiring, but it's not impossible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yep, that grey plug on the left pic is for the TOS.
I don't know of an alternative TOS for the Tornado, but the RS TOS is the same as used on a Triumph 955i
If I was to change the TOS I'd go for a mercury switch type as found on Jap bikes (apparently), not a mechanical one like the RS / 955i. Changing the TOS type will involve some re-wiring, but it's not impossible.
Thanks Errol. I an not well up on electronics, but to my simple way of thinking - would it really involve a degree of re-wiring ? My understanding here is that there are 2 terminals joined together making the circuit, if it is broken then it cuts the engine. So a simple mercury tilt switch type device - or mechanical switch ( TOS ) detects the point of no return and then breaks the circuit.
I was wondering whether they are more complicated than that, or if the ECU has to somehow recognise it ?
 

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Thanks Errol. I an not well up on electronics, but to my simple way of thinking - would it really involve a degree of re-wiring ? My understanding here is that there are 2 terminals joined together making the circuit, if it is broken then it cuts the engine. So a simple mercury tilt switch type device - or mechanical switch ( TOS ) detects the point of no return and then breaks the circuit.
I was wondering whether they are more complicated than that, or if the ECU has to somehow recognise it ?
The OEM part is a bit more complicated than just a switch. It's got some electronics in it, but if you can find a simple mercury switched TOS then all you'll need to do is cut off your plug and wire another into it's place.
I wouldn't use a simple mechanical switch, the vibrations would set it off.
I've never looked for a replacement so I can't help you there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The OEM part is a bit more complicated than just a switch. It's got some electronics in it, but if you can find a simple mercury switched TOS then all you'll need to do is cut off your plug and wire another into it's place.
I wouldn't use a simple mechanical switch, the vibrations would set it off.
I've never looked for a replacement so I can't help you there.
Good to know. I will update this eventually if I find a working alternative, which could be a little while as I have a few things to solve before Spring 2016.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Many thanks to UpNorthWill for supplying me with an original Tornado Tre Tip over Switch.

I am still deciding on whether to fit this or something else, but heading towards the something else at the mo. In the meantime here are my thoughts. The switch is made in China. You get very good and also very bad stuff made there I guess.

I took the lid off to see what is in there. I couldn't get inside the little red box without destroying it, but my impression is that it has a VERY lightweight metal ball inside which rattles around quite freely when shaken even slightly. No surprise that there is a metal ball in a mechanical tilt switch, but speaking as a non-expert I would have thought for reliability of operation it might need to be much heavier ball. My experience in the Army would back that up.
Maybe that is why the device on the Tre is subject to going off when it shouldn't. One reason Mercury has been used in the past in tilt switches is that it makes good contact and has a bit of weight - less likely to be upset by vibrations. I don't thing there's a photo of the innards on here in case anyone is interested, this is it with the lid off -
 

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I took apart the the RS tip over switch if you are interested. The weak point on that design appears to be down to poor manufacturing tolerances, the weight is only just supported on the outer edges of it's pivots so it doesn't take much wear to allow the weight fall off it's support. I modified mine to move the weight supports inwards and added extra rubber mounts to reduce vibration.
 

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Many thanks to UpNorthWill for supplying me with an original Tornado Tre Tip over Switch.

I am still deciding on whether to fit this or something else, but heading towards the something else at the mo. In the meantime here are my thoughts. The switch is made in China. You get very good and also very bad stuff made there I guess.

I took the lid off to see what is in there. I couldn't get inside the little red box without destroying it, but my impression is that it has a VERY lightweight metal ball inside which rattles around quite freely when shaken even slightly. No surprise that there is a metal ball in a mechanical tilt switch, but speaking as a non-expert I would have thought for reliability of operation it might need to be much heavier ball. My experience in the Army would back that up.
Maybe that is why the device on the Tre is subject to going off when it shouldn't. One reason Mercury has been used in the past in tilt switches is that it makes good contact and has a bit of weight - less likely to be upset by vibrations. I don't thing there's a photo of the innards on here in case anyone is interested, this is it with the lid off -
Its not a bearing inside, its a pendulum. I think, from memory, Engina took one apart to add sustenance to the pivots and reduce the likelyhood of a false tip over trigger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I took apart the the RS tip over switch if you are interested. The weak point on that design appears to be down to poor manufacturing tolerances, the weight is only just supported on the outer edges of it's pivots so it doesn't take much wear to allow the weight fall off it's support. I modified mine to move the weight supports inwards and added extra rubber mounts to reduce vibration.
Thanks Mike, I had already studied your post on the RS switch. Again not a very good design, and as it could only cost a minimal amount to make a good quality one that works properly, I wonder why the manufacturers end up with such badly designed gear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Its not a bearing inside, its a pendulum. I think, from memory, Engina took one apart to add sustenance to the pivots and reduce the likelyhood of a false tip over trigger.
I couldn't tell for sure without opening the red box, but either way it does seem to react rather too easily. So I have a bit of time to decide what to do next as the bike will be in bits for a few weeks yet while I do some other jobs. But thanks, Will, for the help.
 

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Had an accident with my Tornado recently and now bike won't start.
I've followed the "Starter Diagnostic" diagram on page of 327 and there is no click of starter relay.
Strangely this diagram doesn't mention TOS.
Should I disconnect TOS for further diagnosis?
 
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