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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guy's, has anyone stumbled onto the reason why the TNT does not start when real hot? The factory quotes removing the locktite from under the generator drive gear, loading the latest TNT01 ECU tune and recrimping the battery leads (this improved things); we tried all three but still we have the problem.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hot starting

Hey Jonny O,
I've had this problem and I've had some work carried out at my dealers to sort it out. The problem of restarting appears to have been fixed, although I haven't done much riding due to the weather since the fix.
The linkage on the Sagem unit which controls the air in was apparently substandard. When the bike cut out the valve/butterfly would shut completely so you couldn't restart the bike, giving you the "flat battery symptom"
I think that is what was done, but I could check with the dealership for an exact description.
I was still getting the cutting out out, but it would restart.
Also, now it's gone cold, the bike doesn't get as hot as during the summer so less work for the cooling system/battery.

Hope some of this helps,

CSMonkey
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Hot starting

There are two issues here, 1 the bike stalling for no apparent reason and 2 not starting when it stalls. Now concerning stalling the throttle bodies or one of the sensors detecting temperature, throttle position rpm or air volume which all send signals back to the ECU could be at fault, they all play an important part in how the fuel/air mix and ignition timing work.
the hot starting issue is a different matter, although the sensors all play there part in making the engine run they cannot stop the engine actually turning over (unless they are creating a major short) regardless of whether it fires up or not it should spin over. For the engine to refuse to turn over it can only be (1) the battery is under powered. (2) The engine has to much resistance or (3) the starter motor is underpowered. I have ridden for a couple of hour’s non stop and when the engine is switched off or stalls it has instantly refused to start, to me this rules out battery. ref my posts back in august I mentioned “vapour locking” briefly this is where a hot engine continues to breath when switched off making the initial compression ratio higher this could be deemed as engine “resistance” I also mentioned my concerns as to the specification (size) of the wiring to and from the battery, alternator and starter, as I feel it is under sized and creating high resistance. So basically when the engine and wiring are hot the additional resistance both electrically and mechanically is too much and the engine won’t turn over.
Interestingly speaking to three cross today they informed me that the German importer replaces all the wires mentioned above for 10mm cable and the starting problem goes away if this is true it would then leave only the stalling problem to fix.
Sorry if you have fallen asleep reading this, over and finally out vtxbrit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
TNT riders in Victoria

Johnny, are there any TNT riders in Victoria? I've got an 05 with the power button on the dash. no problems so far. got 4000k on the clock. was the ex demo bike from A1 ringwood.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
tnt owners

Yay ,another aussie, I'm Nathan over in Perth, RS900 owner, I almost bought the Rs A1 had, but a better offer came along, poor bloke at A1, hope he ended up selling it as he was dead keen too. I'm already saving for a TnT, either Cafe or sport or Ti , if its not super exxy
:rollin

Oh a power commander is now available for the TnT too
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Guy's, I think I've found the problem with the TNT's reluctance to start when real hot..... I think it may be a problem with minimal clearance between the starter motor armiture (the wire windings that rotate) and the outer magnets. When the generator gets hot, I think the armiture is touching the outer magnets and is 'poling out' (unable to rotate due to lack of magnetic attraction/reflection).

I am going to try turning down an armiture in a lath and see if it cures the problem..... stay tuned :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That makes an awful lot of sense, let us know how you get on and also how big a job it is to do. I usually cover 15 - 20 thousand miles a year (most during the summer admittedly) and the thought of having to wait an hour everytime I stop for the bike to cool down is a little daunting to say the least.
And before you ask. . . I have only just got the bike so haven't had chance to really try a long run yet.

Good luck and thanks in advance

.GNOME.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think I may have found the problem Guy's; I think the armiture (wire windings that rotate in the starter-motor) might be 'polling-out' (not able to rotate due to loss of magnetic attraction/repulsion) on the outer magnets.

I think when the engine gets real hot, the armiture expands and due to minimal clearance between it and the outer magnets, they touch.

I am going to try turning down the armiture slightly in a lathe to see if that fixes the problem. I'll let you know how I go.

John
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Question

Hi Guys, have just got back from a rather cold ride around the county and had a thought whilst out and about. What petrol do people use? Unleaded or super unleaded? I've been using standerad unleaded and wondering if this might be the cause of my cutting out problem.
Also, got home after 1.5 hrs ride, fans had been on once for a minute due to the cold. Parked up, opened the garage, went to restart the bike bike and guess what, the f##king thing wouldn't start.

So after an entire summer of trying to get the bike fixed, I'm back to square one. It still doesn't work

Johnny, any news on your idea?

CSMonkey
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Question

I read the guy did the whole trip and the only real mechanical failure was the rear shock, I believe it blew a few hundred km before the end. What I also know is Benelli fitted 2 large fans on the outside of the rads to assist cooling and also a higher capacity battery, rumor has it they also modified the alternator gearing.
More food for thought……. I was told by ****** who use to visit the factory frequently that there was a major last minute design compromise at the front end. The original design had ram air ducts incorporated however it was changed to save production cost they were made aware of the possible problems that could/have arisen but the euro dictated.
I have finally decided to do a few mods to components that I am convinced are causing some of the problems will keep you posted.
Ps. now akropovic have produced a complete system for the TNT and the power commander is available we can really make it breathe as it was designed to, nice to see proper performance items are finally available.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sheeesh!

And there was me thinking I'd play safe and give the TNT a miss.:eek It's no good, I'm going to have to have one now. (Maybe I could enter next year's beach race at Weston):D
Jon
PS How's it going with the black one Gnome??;)
 
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