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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought 1 thread where we can share our faults/solutions might be rather handy. I've been trawling through the forum looking for solutions to the cutting out/not restarting TNT problem.
Mines due back at DMA to try and get this sorted, I will post any info regarding work carried out so we can all benefit.

CSM
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Reddog serviced my TNT on Monday but were unable to put the new battery on due to slight size differences. While talking to them they mentioned an alternator mod recommended by the factory emailed to them, he couldn’t find it but has promised to forward it to me, which leads me to wonder if the hot starting problem points more to a charging problem rather than starter motor? apparently reddog have had a couple of customers who have put smaller capacity batteries on, the theory being that the alternator can cope with fully charging the smaller capacity batteries. Interesting because when my tnt won’t hot start I can only attempt to start 3 or 4 times before the battery is flat (makes the starter relay chatter due to lack of power) after this even with a cold engine it needs bumping. Also with the starter and alternator both running above 70ºC this must tighten bearing, and reduce internal working clearances, reducing efficiency? If this is the problem and the factory email substantiates it then a factory modified replacement alternator would fix all the starting problems.
I will keep you posted.
Vtxbrit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm sooo fu**ed off !

Just been out on the TNT to give it a run & the engine management light comes on and stays on permanently. Spoke to On Yer Bike in Aylesbury and they've said they won't touch it because it wasn't supplied by them, they haven't been paid for for the warranty work they've done and they don't have any parts at all. They've even run out of oil filters now.

I'm pissed off because I'm supposed to be taking it to the IOM for the Manx Grand Prix - something I've really been looking forward to all year and this piece of sh*t is going to ruin it breaking down!

I wish I'd saved my money and kept my Speed Triple.

>: >: >: >: >: >: >: >:
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: I'm sooo fu**ed off !

Sorry to hear that Paul, my management light came on the other day but the bike was running fine so i carried on, when i stopped for petrol and re-started it the light was off.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: I'm sooo fu**ed off !

paul, speak to reddog they have the new map which i am under the impression cures your problem? .................................. don't give up on us now
vtxbrit
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: I'm sooo fu**ed off !

I agree, dont give up just yet , apart from the light coming on which i dont think is indicating a problem , the bike is running perfectly.;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: I'm sooo fu**ed off !

Cheers. Spoke to Red Dog and apparently they've had quite a few in with the same problem. They said the ECU software is "buggy" and "has a mind of its own" . To fix it they regularly have to plug bikes into a lap top to get rid of the logged faults & after that it's fine but there is no long term cure for it.

Their advice was to keep using it if it runs fine & this is what I'll do and hope for the best. Hardly inspires confidence though.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Possible cure for cutting out

Have just dropped the bike off at DMA Brinkworth ( it cut out on the way over there !!!! ) for a long service/inspection whilst I'm off on holiday. DMA reckon the problem could be the butterflies on the injectors shutting completely when at idle and not reopening when I try to restart. When we cut the bike out in gear, we could replicated the flat battery symptom. DMA reckon this is caused by the motor trying to turn over with the butterflies shut and a full vacuum. Hence the starter is unable to turn the engine.
I'm told these are controlled by a stepper motor, which is in turn controlled by the ECU, depending on the sensors. It may be the Stepper motor at fault, or 1 of the 8 sensors feeding info to the ECU. I'll also get the latest ECU map installed.

Hopefully 3 weeks with the dealer should sort it all out.

CSM.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Possible cure for cutting out

Interesting theory. It seems everything from battery to butterflies has been blamed for this fundamental problem. Still doesn't explain why in certain circumstances changing the starter motor fixes it though. Let us know how you get on...
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
...on second thoughts

Isn't it the (mechanically-driven) inlet & exhaust valves which determine if there is a vacuum in the cylinders & are you sure injectors have butterflies ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: ...on second thoughts

The injection system does have butterflies, but they are for air control and even when in the fully shut position are held open (the amount determines tick over speed). as I posted awhile ago due to the cam profile when the engine is hot!! It “breathes,” cycling fuel/air into the cylinders even when the engine is off, almost like convection (nearest similarity I could think of). When you try to start the engine “vapour locking” occurs, with the combination of weak alternators and starter motors the problem is made far worst. I never have starting problems when the engine is cold (when the breathing hardly occurs). However I still think its worth pursuing the starter and alternator problems.
vtxbrit
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
vtxbrit

I think you should be nominated as chief scientist! Did you ever get yours working with the new battery & have you looked any further into the hot starter motor problem?
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Not sure if we are talking about the same problem here, but I have just bought my TnT from 3x and they have jsut been fitting all their bikes with heavier guage cabling from the battery into the loom.
Apparently they draw of the fans and lights was too much for what the cable could provide and so the bikes were stalling at traffic lights.
They also had a new "map" that dimmed (read cuts) the lights at traffic lights which is a tad disconcerting.

Is the same problem or a different one?
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
There are a number of problems, the cutting out at traffic lights which describe and the hot starting problem - where the battery appears flat and won't start the bike even after a long run. The answer to the problem depends on who you speak to but the most plausable I've heard is due to vapor locking and the starter overheating but I cannot be sure. I hope someone comes up with a fix soon because it's rather annoying.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
my map lets the lights cut out on tick over but as soon as you increase the throttle they come back on, according to benelli this has been done to conserve the battery at low revs when the fans are running and the alternator cannot cope, I posted (29-6) awhile back an article mentioning my concerns over battery lead sizes an electronic boff I know has looked at my tnt and said that the leads are small and could create high resistance, (flattening the battery quickly) also he said they would be better if they were “tri-rated" which I think means multi stranded as they would "dramatically reduce resistance” he likened it to using cheap stiff jump leads as opposed to the flexible dearer ones, one works the others get hot and are useless, whilst I don’t see why I should have to spend money on fixing design faults on a 6 month old £10,000 bike I think its time to take the plunge and try a few mods (as long as my dealer says it wont affect warranty), the electrics is without a doubt the weakest part of the tnt.:(
Vtxbrit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
TNT faults

Hi vtxbrit, it would be appreciated by all Benelli owners for everyone to try something, we are all in the same boat. I agree that we should not have to spend any time or money trying to fix faults that should not have been there in the first place but we wanted to ride something a little different, so this, I guess, is the price we pay.

Hey, I had an R1 and spent a ton of money turning it into a bike that I thought Yamaha should have built in the first place (and that included things that didn't work properly from new), is that much different?
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
TNT faults - Bag of shite

Just got back from the Manx GP. Absolutely amazing weather and some brilliant racing; me, my kids and even the wife really enjoyed it!

The bike was great too, got loads of complements and interest from other riders and I really noticed the power over the Speed Triple I took last year. I was able to keep up with and overtake just about everything (except for some bloke on a Fireblade who was a million times faster than me!). Had a superb time until last Thursday (half way through the holiday) when the head gasket went. I now have water in my oil, oil in my water and a fu**ed bike. It's booked in to be fixed but it will probably be the end of the good weather by the time I get it back.

I'm not happy.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: TNT faults - Bag of shite

Bad luck Paul, did the bike suddenley stop or did it slowly give up, will it be fixed under warranty? its a pity because the performance you described is the same as i experianced on a track day recentley. If it is a warranty issue lets hope you get your bike sorted quickly and a courtesy bike provided, if not is it money back time?
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: TNT faults - Bag of shite

Hi, Paul sorry to here about your bad luck,:( what dealer are you taking it to, how many miles on the clock? my brother had a 2004 ZX 12R which after 8000miles was using more oil than petrol, Kawasaki eventually replaced the bike late last year, (although my brother had to part with cash to compensate for the miles he had done), he has just come back from riding round Spain with 10,300miles on the clock and had to put 2ltrs of oil in over the 5 days, he is talking to Kawasaki but they don’t appear to be interested. I know it is of little comfort but benelli is not the only bike out there with apparent design problems.
Please keep us posted.
Vtxbrit
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: TNT faults - Bag of shite

I don't think it liked being revved so hard as it spent a lot of time near the red line in the unrestricted sections of the course. I didn't notice any problems until I went into Douglas to get some money, the bike was running very hot, almost in the red all of the time. The expansion tank was full and overflowing all over the ground and when I start it from hot, a load of white smoke came out of the exhaust. The radiator filler cap is covered in white goo although the oil doesn't look too bad now. Took it out for a quick blast yesterday just to make sure and the thing started to overheat almost immediately and it runs terribly, really jerky. I'm taking it into On Yer Bike in Aylesbury on the trailer when I get time but they won't be able to look it for a couple of weeks. I've spoken to KJM and they have said there should be no problems with warranty claims but the dealers are telling a different story. It's a shame because it has the potential to be a brilliant bike if only it had been better developed.
 
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