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TnT explosive tester
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When looking for the running in procedure of the TnT I found this in the Benelli manual

• Avoid warming up the engine while the
vehicle is stationary. It is advisable to
bring the engine to the working temperature
by riding at reduced speed.


Mcn's Kevin? Ash told us last year and a lot of people poo poo'ed it

But here is a manufacturer telling us, im glad I took ash's advice and do this anyway
 

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When looking for the running in procedure of the TnT I found this in the Benelli manual

• Avoid warming up the engine while the
vehicle is stationary. It is advisable to
bring the engine to the working temperature
by riding at reduced speed.


Mcn's Kevin? Ash told us last year and a lot of people poo poo'ed it

But here is a manufacturer telling us, im glad I took ash's advice and do this anyway
Hmm. I have never done that because I find the Tornado runs like a dog until its warmed up a bit! I dont leave it running for ages though and always take it easy until its up to temp. Takes me that long to get out of the suburbs anyway!
 

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I recall a similar thread some 18mths ago. Warm up was discussed, since then I've started at the last minute and set off. Seem to recall that static warm-up could cause plugs to foul. Just my 2 penneth worth :)
 

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Fyule
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Hello, I hate to be the profit of doom, but I have been advised the reason that my RS engine dmamged it's bottom end was that it was idling to warm up on it's side stand and that it has oil starvation to the highest/outside big end and well, the bearings rotated on the crnak due to this. SO WE SHOULD RIDE OFF AS SOON AS IT'S RUNNING, I will be from now on, even idling it when sitting on it would be better for it. kind of explains why may ducatis and my old Guzzi have suicide stands - you have to be astride them for the to run.

My engine had recently had fresh oil and filter and the oil was at the full mark, so it's not that it was low on oil.

Just a warning to all, lets all learn from my expensive experience.

cheers, Fraser
 

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they cold blooded

it will sit there for ages warming up in auto choke mode and foul the plugs, build up carbon in the combustion area and possibly glaze the bores, even if you tweak the throttle straight after starting it when cold, and this overides the auto choke and you manualy hold it at a higher rev and give it the occasional blip it still takes ages to get the temp gauge out of the blue area, the best bet is to give it 1o-30secs to run and to get oil pressure up and then ride away gently and only when its out of the blue start opening it up. mines definately feels "tight" when cold and not at all happy until shes warm. also having the pistons under load when warming up stops glazing and promotes good ring to bore contact, ensuring good sealing in this area, .
By alls means follow benelli's recommended break in settings but dont baby the motor, once the bores are glazed thats it, the only way to overcome it is the re-hone the bores and fit new rings.
 

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Hmm ok sounds like I need a change of approach then. Just wish it didnt run like a pig before its warmed up!
 

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Just to give my say before we all think our bigends are gone ;) ,the oil system is pressurised,the oil pump produces 6.5 bar.(6.5 bar = 65metres head) Leaning to one side will make virtually no difference to the oil pressure at the big end. Ok at idle the oil pressure may be reduced,especially on a worn engine,but if it was oil starvation to Frasers big end (likely) that was not the reason. Worn out pump or blockage is more likely.
PS, I am not going to argue,just giving my opinion.:)
 

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My neighbours really like the advice in the manual, means they dont have to listen to the Italian alarm clock for so long at 6 in the morning. Besides, very lucky only 400 mtrs to the national speed limit, Borat you have my sympathies, Steve.
 

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Just to give my say before we all think our bigends are gone ;) ,the oil system is pressurised,the oil pump produces 6.5 bar.(6.5 bar = 65metres head) Leaning to one side will make virtually no difference to the oil pressure at the big end. Ok at idle the oil pressure may be reduced,especially on a worn engine,but if it was oil starvation to Frasers big end (likely) that was not the reason. Worn out pump or blockage is more likely.
I'm with you on this Colin. If there's oil in the sump, above the pickup, the pump will send it everywhere, dependent on restrictions. The pump is much larger than most superbike engines. WAY bigger than the 955. Even bigger than that on my 944.
When my oil filter was clogged, the cam chain (2 died) wore out prematurely, due starvation. It's at the end of the lubrication track, and the flow to the head is restricted by the flexible oil line on the lhs of the engine. The bores in the banjos are about 1mm.

The big ends weren't knocking, so the bottom end was getting oiled.
(This assumption works for my 60,000 km engine, but probably not for a tight 5,000 km one.)

I'm seriously thinking of putting an oil pressure gauge at the top banjo bolt. That would have told me something was wrong. It might have helped Fraser's problem as well.
 

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Colin, i am with you on the oil feed front.

I think the issue is all about getting a goot ring seal from the new engine. To do that you put the engine under load (light load) while the bore is still tight. The pressure above the piston forces the ring out into the bore walls and wears the ring to the correct shape.

Better ring seal, more power.

Aarron

... or they have an oil starvation issue when the pump is running at idle. :)
 

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Is this advise just for Nellis or have you lads had similar advice from other bikes that you've owned?
Something tells me you might not have this problem so much on a Japanese machine:confused:

Al;)
 

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When an engine is running, it makes power. That power is just making noise when it's not moving. (Unlike a HD :D )
Besides, any engine, no matter how old, can glaze it's bores when running under a load too light. (Some large generators specifically mention this in their user manuals).
I've never warmed any engine before use. Couldn't see the sense in not making use of the fuel it was burning.:confused:
 

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yep

any engine, a rings a ring, a bore a bore, I've also been told not to rev a engine hard with no load either. I followed this run in method on my RS and shes run sweet ever since.
"Im not a fan of driving a motor you want to keep for a while hard right out of the box. 99% of the poeple that do say so, know absolutely nothing about engines , matter of fact most wont even know how SAE engine oil weights are measured let alone how the in's and out's of a engine work.

I too have done things my way and seen big reults in engine and chassis dyno power. The biggest time when people talk about running engines hard , and track days in the same line are void. Race engines are built differently to regular road bike engines, and race bikes that have stock engines, people dont give a shit about. 1 season maybe 2 and the bike and its motor wont be their problem anymore, as it will be someone elses.

My method:

Start up bike on brisk idle to promote a lot of oil pressure , and modulate the throttle between 1500 and 2500 rpm in short blips, once every ten times or so blip it to 4500rpm , do this to operating temp (where thermo's come on) and as they turn off, switch the bike off. Let the engine cool entirely, to cold. This may take about 5 hours. To this about 3 or 4 times , ie it may take 2 days to do. This is called heat cycling, and will seat the ringset to the bore better than shear load or worse, a linear idle . It also de-stresses the entire crank and rotating assembly to a point. For this reason alone, BMW M3 GT-R engines have about 20,000kms driven on them before they are built into race engines, as its called "engine seasoning".

Once all this is done, go for a ride, riding in smooth power runs to 50% of your redline. If you have 10,000rpm for eg , swing it to 5K , avoid fwy and load the engine up and rev it up aswell . Dont labour the engine, ie take off in 2nd. Do this for the first 400kms.

(at this point i do a engine oil and filter service - gn4 Honda Mineral)

Then swing it to 75% of your redline, from 400 to 800kms, and then from there ....... let it rip.

(at this point i do a engine oil and filter service - gn4 Honda Mineral and another at 1200kms and another at 1800kms where i then go to full synth)

Speaking to Dan Kyle back in January when i got my SP-2, we were of the allmost identical opinion for a street engine, he says to give it 1000kms or 600 miles before you go apeshit, but its near enuf. He is BTW a 2x AMA prized engine builder.

Make your own choice."
I did this when i first got the rs with a couple of kays on the clock from the factory.. worked real well.
 

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Just a thought - but what do dealers do with a brand new bike/engine when checking it over (PDI) - I am sure they just keep it ticking over with a handfull of throttle every few seconds ????

I doubt they think about the long term effects that we are talking about on here??????
 

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This is what confuses me every time this debate comes up - If these alternative methods are the best way of running in an engine, why do manufacturers not pre-run in the engines and why are we still told to go through the same laborious running in period. I have to assume that the engine manufacturers are not idiots who don't know about engines as they designed and built the things, so there must be a reason? Now this is just me playing devils advocate, not disputing anything anyone is saying, but is there a difference between running in an engine for maximum power and running an engine in for longevity? What is being suggested makes sense for a max power engine, but is there the potential for it to result in a shorter life? If so that would explain the discrepancy - mfrs will want the engine to last and will not care about the loss of a few horses at the expense of no warranty claim. To be honest, if that was the case, neither do I ;)

Discuss...
 

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Just a thought - but what do dealers do with a brand new bike/engine when checking it over (PDI) - I am sure they just keep it ticking over with a handfull of throttle every few seconds ????
It depends.
It depends on the brand and model in question, and on the way the bike is being delivered from the manufacturer. It also depends on certain random issues, like whether or not possible problems occur when setting up the bike.

Some bikes come in "unpack&ride" mode, some come as half-assembled kits, usually with engine dry, tyre(s), handlebars, levers etc. uninstalled. Benelli crates are more like the former, along with Guzzi and Ducati ones.
Sometimes the dealer has to do a lot of work to get the bike up and running, especially if/when a bike has been in storage for a long time. Usually they come alive just fine though.

In most cases, the new bike being unpacked and serviced for the customer is being checked, battery fitted and inspected, engine filled with fluids (when necessary) and some fuel poured in the tank, after which the engine will be turned on, lights, blinkers and such are being checked to see that everything works as expected. They usually let the engine run for a couple of minutes, not being loaded or revved too high, just to see that everything works. Often that means that the engine is being run until it's warmed up, and not just by letting it run at idle. After that, it's up to the new owner to take care of the running in procedure. Again, details may vary in different locations and with different brands.

Besides, different manufacturers have different methods of testing their products before delivery. Manufacturers like Guzzi and Ducati actually ride the bikes as a whole and do some running in the engine (whilst also checking the efi) before packing and sending them away. The new bikes actually have some mileage in them when you unpack the bike, even though the odo is showing 0 km/miles. After the first test ride, the bike's dash is being reset by the manufacturer. What exactly do the factory testers do during that test session and for how long may vary between manufacturers and even cases, but basically it matches normal riding.

In other words, when you buy a new Italian bike, it has already been run by the manufacturer, and all the dealer needs to do is to unpack it and to do the delivery service, which I described above. Not all manufacturers do so, like the Asian giants (apparently), though. In some rare cases there may still be problems in getting the bike up and running, most common one being some weird EFI/fuel problems when trying to start the bike up for the first time. In most cases those problems can be solved quickly, though. In such cases, it may be necessary to run the bike a bit longer, and possibly even test ride it before handing it over to the customer.


aussie RS said:
they dont know, let alone even care, most think commission $$$, and the warranty's the factorys problem.
You are welcome to your opinion, but don't present it as a common fact.
Many, in fact most places I know do care about the first moments of the bike's life and about the customer. After all, they do want to see the customer coming back for other stuff later, and eventually for a new bike, as well as to avoid conflicts, complaints and possible nasty confrontations later. I don't know about the places which do business with $$$, though.

That is, they do check the bike, see that it runs etc, but the actual running in the bike (the first service interval) is a job the new owner is supposed to do. The majority of the buyers do want to break their new bike in themselves. Whatever that means, in each case. Some do it "by the book," some do it by another, possibly shorter method and, usually even if they don't ask for it, before the customers ride off, they will be given basic instructions that are safe and reasonable, for each case.

As for relying on the factory warranty, it's not that simple, either. The dealers usually have to deal with the unhappy client and repair the faulty product, anyway, and that is eating up both customer care and especially service resources, which could be used for more profitable work during the high season. The warranty works aren't that sort of deals.

I for one, and most of the fellows I know did/do take certain pride in delivering the bike well, and in pristine condition, from unpacking the crate to all the way to seeing the new owner off outside the delivery door as s/he rides off with the new bike. When we have done our job well, we know that the bike has been given away in flawless condition, and most of us do wish to see the new owner again, for the first service, as well as for possible additional purchases.
 

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I'm firing on three
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Interesting reading,
with all of the modern bikes I have owned I have always started the engine, spent about 30 secs getting comfortable then put her in gear and headed off, but I don’t labour, hard accelerate or rev it until it’s up to normal temp.
I was told many years ago by 2 serious engine builders (1 of them was involved with designing the Evo engine) that letting an aluminium alloy bike engine with a small cooling system warm up whilst stationary lets all the engine components heat up at different rates rather than heating up gradually and uniformally, this differential heating of components can create distortion leading to possible head gasket, oil leaks or cracked component problems, so my advice is give it 30 seconds to get a slurp of oil then head off gently until it’s up to temp.

Terry
 
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