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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'll be able to get this VFR800 off the bike lift this weekend and the 2006 TNT 1130 sport prep'd for examination to see what has caused the engine to 'jam'. BTW, I bought it as a project and have not touched it so far. I don't think it's seized...engine oil looked good and filter had no nasties when opened and washed. The engine was carefully / slowly turned about quarter of a turn on the crank bolt ( with some resistance) before stopping with a slight 'clunk'. I have no idea what the situation is at this stage. It appears that the PO started to pull the engine down, tank ,airbox loose etc then, for whatever reason, stopped. Unable to turn the engine over with bike in gear because the clutch is slipping ( in 6 gear). I intend to open and dismantle the clutch pack first, then alternator and Z25 gear then timing chain. Mileage unknown at this stage but thought to be 40k so chain needs looking at.
OK, a couple of questions from the forum's gurus.
How difficult to remove the clutch center nut without the clutch holding tool ? Anyone used anything else to hold the clutch basket ?
Can the Z25 gear be pulled out without the special tool ? If not, is the tool available, can one be easily made ?
All advice is much appreciated
Thanks and cheers
JMB
 

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Hi JMB,
When you drop the oil take clutch casing off first that will show you a lot about what may be going on especially if it is the z25 gear .
no special tool required to take centre nut off the clutch just use an impact wrench with bike in gear and an Allen key locked into place against the brake calliper through the disc. No harm will be done .
And as for removing the z25 when you remove the parts out of the way to get to it such as any panels , clutch command, alternator and any wires ect .once the clutch basket is out of the way all you need is a half steel bar to tap it from alternator side out towards the clutch and leaving inside to hold the starter sprag in place ready for when you rebuild . By reversing the process once more making sure the “new” ? z25 pushes the half inch bar back out as it goes in from clutch side.

I hope the issue is a minor one and an easy fix , I recently had a gear box destroy itself (I may of helped that lol ) but a new to me one was bought and back in within a week ! ..
Edit !! ……… forgot to say remove all the bits alternator side first as their is a nut at the end that holds on the drive coupling on the z25 that needs slackening off before the clutch is removed …oops

Good luck 🤞
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi JMB,
When you drop the oil take clutch casing off first that will show you a lot about what may be going on especially if it is the z25 gear .
no special tool required to take centre nut off the clutch just use an impact wrench with bike in gear and an Allen key locked into place against the brake calliper through the disc. No harm will be done .
And as for removing the z25 when you remove the parts out of the way to get to it such as any panels , clutch command, alternator and any wires ect .once the clutch basket is out of the way all you need is a half steel bar to tap it from alternator side out towards the clutch and leaving inside to hold the starter sprag in place ready for when you rebuild . By reversing the process once more making sure the “new” ? z25 pushes the half inch bar back out as it goes in from clutch side.

I hope the issue is a minor one and an easy fix , I recently had a gear box destroy itself (I may of helped that lol ) but a new to me one was bought and back in within a week ! ..
Edit !! ……… forgot to say remove all the bits alternator side first as their is a nut at the end that holds on the drive coupling on the z25 that needs slackening off before the clutch is removed …oops

Good luck 🤞
Thanks for that, I will digest it! I'm not in any hurry as I suspect there are other things wrong with the machine so no pressure to get it going. Notwithstanding that, I am keen to find out if it is worth fixing before spending too much time and folding green on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Do THAT one too many times and you'll regret it!
The shank is a lot smaller than you think, and more than one has sheared off by using it to turn the crank.
I was under the impression that the engine could be rotated,with due care and caution, on the crank bolt ? I recall reading this somewhere, in fact if I remember correctly, it was written that the stock crank bolt should be replaced with a longer HT bolt ? Maybe I did not get this correctly.....so how should the engine be rotated ?
Different subject. The pressure fitting at the fuel pump delivery which plugs into the bottom of the pump housing appears to have been ' a bit butchered'. How does this plug in ? Is it simply push fitted with O ring seal or what ?
It need to resist around 60 psi so it should be something substantial
Advice appreciated.
Cheers.
JMB.
 

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If by "crank bolt" you are referring to #3 below -
37043

that's only strong enough the hold the "phonic wheel" in place. From memory it's only M6.
If the spark plugs are out, maybe you could use it, but better ways to turn the crank are
  1. in gear & turn the rear wheel (or front sprocket) forwards, or
  2. use the hex on the inlet camshaft to rotate the crank backwards.
There's a picture of the tank hose removed HERE. It's just a straight plastic tube, gripped by the female mate in the tank & o-ring sealed. The grips are released by two tabs, which are often broken if the proper release tool is not used. If yours has been butchered, the tabs have possibly been broken off.
The fuel pressure is ~ 45 psi (3 Bar).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If by "crank bolt" you are referring to #3 below -
View attachment 37043
that's only strong enough the hold the "phonic wheel" in place. From memory it's only M6.
If the spark plugs are out, maybe you could use it, but better ways to turn the crank are
  1. in gear & turn the rear wheel (or front sprocket) forwards, or
  2. use the hex on the inlet camshaft to rotate the crank backwards.
There's a picture of the tank hose removed HERE. It's just a straight plastic tube, gripped by the female mate in the tank & o-ring sealed. The grips are released by two tabs, which are often broken if the proper release tool is not used. If yours has been butchered, the tabs have possibly been broken off.
The fuel pressure is ~ 45 psi (3 Bar).
Yes. My intent was just to see if the engine was free so applied judicial torque to the said crank bolt keeping in mind the fact that it is 'fragile'. The engine did move. I tried to rotate further using the bike in gear but the clutch slip prevented that. The cam cover is still in place and I won't remove that until later IF decision made to proceed. I'll see what's wrong with the clutch first and whether the engine can be rotated in either direction via the back wheel. It's apparent that the bike is in a bit of a mess mechanically and probably electrically. It has also been dropped and sustained damage to the plastics incl radiator fittings (yet to be checked out) The frame and forks seem OK.
Can anyone advise on how the pressure pipe from tank to the injectors 'plugs' int the bottom of the pump/tank fitting ?
All good fun
Cheers.
JMB
 

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Your slipper must be set very invasive to slip like this. Mine doesn't, but it does work when it needs to.

Best not turn the engine backwards via the wheel/gearbox, as that puts enormous strain on the cam chain adjuster ratchet. These ratchets have failed in the past, probably weakened by doing just that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Your slipper must be set very invasive to slip like this. Mine doesn't, but it does work when it needs to.

Best not turn the engine backwards via the wheel/gearbox, as that puts enormous strain on the cam chain adjuster ratchet. These ratchets have failed in the past, probably weakened by doing just that.
Good advice, I can see how that happens. As mentioned, I have no idea what may have befallen this bike or what previous owners understood about it. It's a case of 'suck it and see'.
Thanks and cheers.
JMB.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Good advice, I can see how that happens. As mentioned, I have no idea what may have befallen this bike or what previous owners understood about it. It's a case of 'suck it and see'.
Thanks and cheers.
JMB.
OK, clutch exposed. The last plate (outside )in the pack is a friction plate, up against the pressure plate. Err.... When the clutch is disengaged the plate had fallen outside the clutch basket and jammed between the basket and the pressure plate. Easy enough to get the plate back in ( the wrong ) place and apart from some metal scraped off the plate's fingers, no damage seems to have been done. Can't guess what the 'mechanic' was thinking and what else could be expected to find .. In this situation it appears that the pack is " over stuffed" meaning that the last plate in the pack is flush with the edge of the basket. When the lever is pulled any amount, the plate's bearing on the basket is reduced to the point where the plate is no longer in the basket and falls out.
I will pull the clutch apart in the next couple of days and see what's wot. The throw out movement of the pressure plate is 2.7 mm which is about the same as the thickness of a clutch plate.
The cam chain tensioner has run out of adjustment....fully extended so it looks like a new chain. Benelli recommend changing the cam sprockets with the chain any one have any thoughts on this.
Where can I get these chain ?
All comments . advice mucho appreciated.
Cheers.
 

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OK, clutch exposed. The last plate (outside )in the pack is a friction plate, up against the pressure plate. Err.... When the clutch is disengaged the plate had fallen outside the clutch basket and jammed between the basket and the pressure plate.
I've seen this in an RS recently. The stack height was way too much. It also made the clutch lever pull very heavy.

{FOR The TORNADO 900 - which may be different to the slipper-less TNT 1130}
Set the clutch stack height between 48 & 50 mm. The stack height is the total height of all the plates, excluding the innermost, which from memory is a hybrid.
< 48 and the clutch will slip​
from 48 to 50 the slipper action increases​
above 50 and the outer most plate may disengage - as you have seen​

Check how much wear the pusher plate has had. As that wears, the stack height needs to increase to compensate.

The cam chain tensioner has run out of adjustment....fully extended so it looks like a new chain. Benelli recommend changing the cam sprockets with the chain any one have any thoughts on this.
Where can I get these chain ?
Alternate Cam Chain - bottom of the page.
I change the moving guide with every second chain. Sprockets don't need changing unless obviously worn - I've never needed to.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I've seen this in an RS recently. The stack height was way too much. It also made the clutch lever pull very heavy.

{FOR The TORNADO 900 - which may be different to the slipper-less TNT 1130}
Set the clutch stack height between 48 & 50 mm. The stack height is the total height of all the plates, excluding the innermost, which from memory is a hybrid.
< 48 and the clutch will slip​
from 48 to 50 the slipper action increases​
above 50 and the outer most plate may disengage - as you have seen​

Check how much wear the pusher plate has had. As that wears, the stack height needs to increase to compensate.


Alternate Cam Chain - bottom of the page.
I change the moving guide with every second chain. Sprockets don't need changing unless obviously worn - I've never needed to.
Okey dokey.
The engine can be rotated by hand using a socket on a clutch basket pressure spring bolt and a good hand grip of the clutch itself, plugs out of course. It appears that this engine was jammed by the clutch plate which fell out.The inside of the area is spotlessly clean.
The plan now is to change the timing chain, will try to source one next week. Meanwhile if anyone has any tips on the 'best' method of doing this they would be much appreciated. I have the factory jargon but individual experience is often invaluable.
I had intended to remove and service/ check/test the alternator and starter and will do this. However I had also intended to pull and check the Z25 gear. Looking at the general condition of the innerds I wonder if this is necessary ?? Any comment on how to check the viability of the Z25 gear (with the clutch basket in place) and whether or not it's worth pulling the gear out.....it may have been changed previously, hoo nose ?
As usual, all advice appreciated.
Cheers.
JMB
 

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The plan now is to change the timing chain, will try to source one next week. Meanwhile if anyone has any tips on the 'best' method of doing this they would be much appreciated.
Have a look HERE.
... had also intended to pull and check the Z25 gear. Looking at the general condition of the innerds I wonder if this is necessary ?? Any comment on how to check the viability of the Z25 gear (with the clutch basket in place) and whether or not it's worth pulling the gear out.....it may have been changed previously, hoo nose ?
If you can determine that the gear is a new one, no probs, the shaft will also be a new one.
The very first "new" one was easy to spot, as it had shaft alignment marks, but the more recent ones have been cut with more clearance, and don't need to be aligned. They are harder to recognise. Others may chip in here and give you their insights.
Me? I'd just pull it apart and eyeball the shaft - it doesn't take long. If it has two lubrication holes, or is twisted, it needs to be replaced.
While you have the alternator out, check its coupling. I've found a couple loose. Leave that too long and the spline wears too much, and the coupling needs to be replaced.

Be careful not to nick the alternator seal when you re-install it.

Once you get it back together, check the alternator drive shaft bolt every service for at least two services. They have been known to loosen. If it hasn't moved in 2 services, it probably won't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Have a look HERE.

If you can determine that the gear is a new one, no probs, the shaft will also be a new one.
The very first "new" one was easy to spot, as it had shaft alignment marks, but the more recent ones have been cut with more clearance, and don't need to be aligned. They are harder to recognise. Others may chip in here and give you their insights.
Me? I'd just pull it apart and eyeball the shaft - it doesn't take long. If it has two lubrication holes, or is twisted, it needs to be replaced.
While you have the alternator out, check its coupling. I've found a couple loose. Leave that too long and the spline wears too much, and the coupling needs to be replaced.

Be careful not to nick the alternator seal when you re-install it.

Once you get it back together, check the alternator drive shaft bolt every service for at least two services. They have been known to loosen. If it hasn't moved in 2 services, it probably won't.
Thanks very much for that great advice.
Being a slow and ponderous thinker it will take me a while to digest.
Cheers
JMB
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Have a look HERE.

If you can determine that the gear is a new one, no probs, the shaft will also be a new one.
The very first "new" one was easy to spot, as it had shaft alignment marks, but the more recent ones have been cut with more clearance, and don't need to be aligned. They are harder to recognise. Others may chip in here and give you their insights.
Me? I'd just pull it apart and eyeball the shaft - it doesn't take long. If it has two lubrication holes, or is twisted, it needs to be replaced.
While you have the alternator out, check its coupling. I've found a couple loose. Leave that too long and the spline wears too much, and the coupling needs to be replaced.

Be careful not to nick the alternator seal when you re-install it.

Once you get it back together, check the alternator drive shaft bolt every service for at least two services. They have been known to loosen. If it hasn't moved in 2 services, it probably won't.
OK, here's the progress blurb and as usual the inevitable "Help" !.
First, re the Z25 GEAR, I haven't taken the generator out yet as too involved sorting out the clutch. But, the Z25 gear may have been changed ....there are no alignment marks on the gear or the shaft apart from the 4 'marks' at 90* intervals on the end of the shaft. NOW someone has tried to engrave "R6 6 II II" onto the gear ? Have no idea what it refers to ? The gear /shaft spins freely in both directions, I can feel the weight of the armature on the shaft. Occasionally it will clunk dead stop in one direction and I'm putting that down to the motion activating the starter sprag clutch ? ?.
The clutch itself....well. The clutch nut look like someone had simply forgotten to tighten it. It was undone one complete turn, the clutch basket could move a couple of mm along the main shaft. No signs of locktight. The pack assembly seemed to be installed in the correct sequence depending on whether you follow the installation as shown in the parts book OR the installation shown in the workshop manual. The friction material on the plate which had dropped out of the basket is pretty chewed up.
The workshop manual shows 5 x 1.5 mm thickness steel plates,plus 5 x 2 mm, plus 1 x 2.5 mm but does not mention the installation sequence....any clues ?
The parts book also shows a different installation position.for the 'Bellville" spring.
The parts book shows the last plate in the basket is steel, the workshop manual shows friction / fiber ?
This clutch had 11 friction plates ( probably why one had fallen out ? )
As usual, all comments and advice much appreciated.
Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
OK, that's clear. Different steel disc thicknesses can be used to adjust the stack height.
Thanks again.
Cheers.
 
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