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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all :)

My Tornado 1130 suffer from the hot start problem :-(
It have around 2000 km on the tacho now.

By surfing around I find out that I apparently have this Z25 problem and by surfing here I can see a lot of you Guys use a dealer called Bennets. I assume that it must be Bennettsmotorcycles.co.uk and I write them a mail and ask about they are willing to ship the parts I need to Denmark.

The answer I get back is :

Hi Jasper,
The hot start problem is more likely to be the starting clutch gear (sprag clutch) its located behind the gearbox there should be a 60 tooth gear fitted to it already but if there is not this will be the problem, please see attached pictures number 18

Product Rectangle Azure Organism Slope

Price for these gears are as follows

£223 gbp including tax

Regards Lee @.

Question 1. Are we talking about the same thing....is Z25 gear the same as Lee from Bennets are shoving me here?

On ebay I see this article :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Benelli-TNT-1130-GEAR-KIT-Z25-/261469581770?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3ce0cd31ca

At a Price tag at £87 gbp.....and I Wonder...is that the parts I need?

I would really be glad for some help here guys, I must say I love my Tornado but havent seen this problem comming....I am a mecanic, but I feel a Little lost and I am proberly the only one with a Tornado 1130 in Denmark :-(

I have read Engenia's website (If you are reading this you have a big fan on the other side of the World :bow::bow: ) Is this Z25 gear the same on a 1130 with dry cluch? on Engenias site I only see wet clutch Pictures.

Any help is apriciated.......(sorry for my spelling :eek: )
 

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Question 1. Are we talking about the same thing....is Z25 gear the same as Lee from Bennets are shoving me here?

No. The Z25 gear and shaft is part 22 in the parts diagram. It may be that your 1130 already has the upgraded version of these but it would be worth checking just to be absolutely sure.

The parts that Lee is on about (part number 18) is the starter sprag clutch gear set.
The original version didn't turn the engine over very efficiently. The upgraded parts have a different amount of teeth which make a terrific improvement and has transformed the starting of my 1130 TNT.
The engine cases don't need to be split to replace the parts as they can be fitted after removing the gearbox.

Is this Z25 gear the same on a 1130 with dry cluch? on Engenias site I only see wet clutch Pictures.
Yes. The same z25 gear and shaft is common to all modern Benellis

Hi Jesper,

Answers to your questions are highlighted in red above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Laurence :bow::bow:

You are the man, Next beer on me :gulp:

I know you have driven Benellis in years and properly can shift these items while you are sleeping, but actually I am a little sorry about this and not really impressed over the fact that a engine like this left the factory.


I have another bike, so I think I will fix my Benelli right away and hope you will answer a few more questions :eek:

Question 1 again :) if I have the updated Z25 gear, have I understand it right that it have to be like this picture, and the alignments arrows show me it is the new type....no arrows = old type.
Gear Bicycle part Crankset Rim Wheel


Question 2. Then I also need the gear Lee from Bennetts is talking about...as I understand it gives me a better start engine gear ratio.

Question 3. What about the clutch basket? is that also a problem at the dry clutch type? I am reading about 6 mm sprocket who have to be upgraded to 8 mm

Question 4. Do I need any gaskets or is it rubber seals, especially I am thinking side cover but also read about oil leeks around the clutch.

And finally for now anyways....what do you think?...new battery, impossible to start while hot....15 minutes break and it starts again.....when cold the starter spins like it properly should always.

Thanks again :eek:
 

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Question 1 again :) if I have the updated Z25 gear, have I understand it right that it have to be like this picture, and the alignments arrows show me it is the new type....no arrows = old type.


Well, Yes.....................and No.
When Benelli first released the upgraded Z25 gear and shaft they put alignment arrows on them to ensure they would be lined up concentrically as they were manufactured as a matched pair. However, the arrows were replaced with a crude scribe line on some later ones. In addition, I believe the very latest ones don't have any markings on them at all as they are manufactured to a much higher tolerance, so they don't need to be lined up in a specific position.
The only sure way of telling if you have an upgraded set is to remove it and check how many oil holes are in the shaft. The original version had 2, all the later ones have only 1. Another way of telling is to look at the finish of the side of the Z25 gear, the originals had a very rough cast finish while the later versions had a much smoother machined finish. Also, the Z25 bolt diameter is also larger on the upgraded versions and this should be used with a belville washer rather than a loc-tab washer which was fitted originally.


Question 2. Then I also need the gear Lee from Bennetts is talking about...as I understand it gives me a better start engine gear ratio.
Correctamundo

Question 3. What about the clutch basket? is that also a problem at the dry clutch type? I am reading about 6 mm sprocket who have to be upgraded to 8 mm
There was an upgraded basket for wet clutches released in 2007 which had the increased gear width but the dry clutch should not suffer from this problem.

Question 4. Do I need any gaskets or is it rubber seals, especially I am thinking side cover but also read about oil leeks around the clutch.
The clutch cover gasket should be able to be used again if you apply some sealing compound (i.e. threebond, etc.)
The refitting of the clutch cover on a dry clutch can be difficult to ensure it is leak free as it needs to be positioned with the aperture hole in the cover to be centered exactly around the main shaft, there is a special Benelli alignment tool for doing this, however, I find that if you loosely position the clutch cover then temporarily fit the clutch on the main shaft this will align the clutch cover in a central position and allow you to fit all the fixing bolts. In essence, use the clutch basket as the cover positioning tool.
You may also want to replace the alternator 'O' ring seal as these tend to swell and can get caught when the alternator is re-fitted.

And finally for now anyways....what do you think?...new battery, impossible to start while hot....15 minutes break and it starts again.....when cold the starter spins like it properly should always.
Unlikely a new battery is going to resolve the hot start problem but ensuring that the battery is in tip top condition and doubling up or upgrading the battery/starter cables can only improve the starting capability.
 

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Jesper,when all the mods are done the Tornado 1130 is an absolutely STONKING bit of kit :bow::bow::D:D:ele::ele:
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Laurence....you are the man:bow::bow:

You don't know how much I appreciate (wonder if I spell that right) your help, cant thank you enough:clap:

"And finally for now anyways....what do you think?...new battery, impossible to start while hot....15 minutes break and it starts again.....when cold the starter spins like it properly should always.
Unlikely a new battery is going to resolve the hot start problem but ensuring that the battery is in tip top condition and doubling up or upgrading the battery/starter cables can only improve the starting capability."

At this question I meant that I already have a new battery and the symptoms is that it is rotate quite well cold, but when hot one piston at the time and the power drop so low that the trip counter makes a reset...

Yesterday I had it on a track....I know its a little early with that low mileage, but it was a day I arranged myself and had 20 fellow bikers on the guest list....I drove 8 pass at 20 minutes, then around 30 minutes break and managed to start it at every pass.

But now the symptoms are a little bit different, because now when cold it spins fast at first and then lock up...then I can push the starter quickly 2 or 3 times to crank the engine a little bit, then it turns fast again.....I imagine the Z25 gear bend and hit a tight spot in the rotation......does that make any sense?

Anyway, I think the plan is to call Lee at Bennetts ( seems like you guys in here use them ) then order :

1) Z25 gear with Belville washer

2)
Starter sprag clutch gear set

Do I need any other parts? and is the price at £223 for the clutch gear set okay?

Then I also make the battery wiring in another dimension......think I have some spare wire for my Ferguson digger, that should do the job :p
 

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1) Z25 gear with Belville washer

2)
Starter sprag clutch gear set

Do I need any other parts? and is the price at £223 for the clutch gear set okay?
Make sure you get a new 8.8 HT bolt with the Z25 shaft and you may also want a replacement 'O' ring for the alternator.

If that's what Bennetts are charging for them then you won't be able to get them from an official Benelli dealer for any less.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks Again....I will post a follow up :)

Or WHEN I get in trouble I properly end up whining here again, think I will work on it next weekend.
 

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It could be the spag clutch. Benelli has released an upgrade on the original parts with a different cog ratio which aids engine turnover.
 

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It could be the spag clutch. Benelli has released an upgrade on the original parts with a different cog ratio which aids engine turnover.
What part no. is spag clutch? I think it can solve my start problem. I have still have problems to start the engine when it is cold (I need mostly 3 tries, in the beginning display shows "bae" battery). I have already new (thicker) cables and battery. The Tornado RS is at my garage at the moment to check the clutch basket and the Z25 problem in order to be safe for the future. So I can fix it all in one garage visit.
 

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There are two parts to the sprag clutch upgrade -

R19113201A - is the 17/67 gear
R180234103000 - is the 60 gear
 
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What part no. is spag clutch? I think it can solve my start problem. I have still have problems to start the engine when it is cold (I need mostly 3 tries, in the beginning display shows "bae" battery). I have already new (thicker) cables and battery. The Tornado RS is at my garage at the moment to check the clutch basket and the Z25 problem in order to be safe for the future. So I can fix it all in one garage visit.
Hi while it’s at the garage getting checked . Please get them to look at the condition of the starter motor Brushes they can fail and cause other problems too
 
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